Hi everyone.

I need some help if possible from some of you seasoned vets. I apologize in advance if this is lengthy but I feel like I need to convey exactly where my puppy and myself are in our relationship. And I also feel the need to be very specific about what my goals are, my puppy's temperament, and where I'm at as a novice trainer for this post to be effective.

I've been reading this board now for about a year and have learned a tremendous amount from many of you and would like to first of all say thank you. But, I could really benefit from the years of experience many of you have raising, training and showing schutzhund dogs. You see I made a very well thought out decision at about the same time I began reading this board to acquire and raise a GSD and also to train him for competition schutzhund. I did a lot of homework and research in picking my puppy and feel that I selected a very good one. Meanwhile, as I was waiting on the breeding to take place I began to study..., everything! I've seen many of Ed's tapes, Bernhard as well. I've read books by Susan Barwig and Tom Rose. Watched Gotfried Dildei, and Jo Ann Plumb tapes. Read the infamous "Der Schutzhund" buy Helmut Raiser. Even checked out some of the top AKC OB people like Bobbie Anderson and her "Building Blocks for Performance." I joined USA, and became a active member of my local schutzhund club, watching, learning... all this in an attempt to better my chances of raising a good working dog. I'm not crazy enough to believe that simply consuming information would instantly make me a good handler or trainer. But I'm very serious about doing this. I love it and have become addicted to the sport to the point where I want to compete and would like to be considered a good handler/trainer - not as a profession but for my own personal enjoyment. This is where I'm at.

My puppy is a product of Troll vh Milinda and Usha Van Guy's Hof. Here is a link: http://www.vaneisenlinde.com/pedigree.htm if anyone cares to explore the dogs in his BL's. He has unbelievable drive. Very confident. Actually he's a little full of himself. Doesn't seem spooky by any definition. He is overtly social, always wanting to explore and greet. A little pushy when he sees one of his littermates. He seems to have a very stable temperament and clear head. If I didn't cover anything here I'll be glad to give more detail.

My goals:
Obviously contingent on me as a handler and the genetic potential and temperament of my pup. But, I will set them high. Maybe it's not possible, but I'd like to compete on a national level with this dog in schutzhund or go as far as we can. I'd like to see him earn a SchIII, a FH title, IPOIII with very balanced scores in all three phases. I want him to work eager and happy in OB, precise and methodical in his tracking and show intensity and courage in protection. And possibly at the end of his schutzhund career do something a little different such as agility. No real aspirations of greatness here it just seems as though it would be fun with him as he is naturally athletic and has great coordination. Goals that will span the life of the dog I know but wanted everyone to know what I was thinking. O and if that's not asking for too much, I also would like for him to be my best friend. To be able to chill, go for walks and just enjoy each other.

So - here goes the questions:
1) When I interact with him he loves to run, play hide and seek, act goofy BUT when he catches you he ONLY wants to bite. I've been allowing him to chew a rawhide while I hold it. We do this 4 or 5 times a day. It seems to alleviate his teething woes and it's the only time I can just pet him or check him out - while his mouth is occupied that is. The problem with this is that his jaws are beginning to show a great deal of strength and his nips before have turned into all out assaults on ones flesh. Basically he's a little land shark. I have not corrected him for this behavior. One consistent message I seem to here is to avoid dampening his spirit at all cost and this will go away at approximately four months. I've been told to redirect this little monster onto a towel or tug. Here's my dilemma. He's just beginning to teeth and I don't want to give him a bite during this time for fear of a negative reaction due to a sore mouth. Meanwhile, he's eating me alive. How do you guys handle this one? BTW: when I say he likes to bite - what I mean is he REALLY likes to bite. Holes in all my sweatshirts. Scars on my hands . I've been around his littermates which are also very good quality dogs but I don't see the intense focus on constant biting from them they seem more balanced.

2) Beginning to show independence <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> . Wow this is a tough one. And maybe my biggest concern. I've offered a lot of energy to try to be the center of his world. I watch the tone of my voice. I try to be animated and captivating for him. Very tiring. I control his environment as much as I possibly can. He is crated whenever I cannot give him 100% of my attention. We are learning some OB in a very dull room free of distractions. Doing quite well with this by the way. I do use food and a clicker correctly and he learns very quickly using this method. However I'm trying my best to become his primary motivator - not a treat or toy or even having to act especially silly to keep his interest peeked on me. I've begun to notice the signs of some independence. No doubt due to his confidence he's beginning to want to explore things on his own and occasionally wants to tune me out to chase a leaf or sniff the ground or run after a stranger. I keep him on a very light drag line to maintain some control. I don't want him to get in the habit of ignoring me. So when I attempt to get his attention and he doesn't respond I'll give him a small tug and try to do something entertaining. But just recently he has bucked at this and will pull against the drag line as he also shows signs of being very determined or what I'd call a little bull-headed. I don't want to fight him on this and it become a battle of wills over who gets their way, that couldn't be positive. But I don't want to lose the leadership role in the relationship either. Suggestions on this one?

3) Toys <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> . I've heard again and again that you can make mistakes with food but don't make mistakes with toys. So, up to this point he's had no toys. Again I want to be what he focuses on not a secondary motivator to stimulate him. But, maybe its time. How can I begin playing in a constructive but fun way with a ball on a string? I don't want to mess up his retrieve or have him get too possessive so as to take the toy and run away to play with it (which is what he does now if he accidentally steals a sock or such). I want to build his trust so that he will want to interact with me using the toy. Thoughts?

4) Last question: RESPECT and CORRECTIONS. Is he too young to begin learning some manners? I want him to be a flashy, confident competitor but I would also like to enjoy his company. Is this impossible to do with the same dog? Ideally I'd like for him to respect me because he identifies me as his leader, not because of fear of compulsion and a dominance, submissive issue. However, again just recently, he has been content to chew his rawhide with me holding it, but now has attempted twice to bite at me and take it from me to run off with it. I view this as blatant disrespect but I'm conflicted on correcting him for it. Also the issue of... I want to go here... NOW and takes off only to fight the end of his leash. I may have information overload, I've read, talked and looked at so much in an attempt to raise him to the best of my ability. Because of this I feel somewhat frozen and unable to react about this whole correcting a dog that will do bite work thing. How do I react appropriately so as to maintain respect and not squash drive? I've heard it preached so much that I'm unable to respond. I fear that a single moment in time with a correction that I gave for a behavior that I might have misinterpreted could ruin him and I will have done all of this for nothing. But I don't think I'm doing him any favors ignoring his attitude either because I fear raising a dog that will not value me and see me as his leader. Any help here is appreciated.

I won't continue any further. Much of this behavior may be perfectly normal for a working dog. If it is, great! I just don't want to make too many mistakes in his early development. I want to begin to learn the sport and understand my dog. I'm willing to work at it if I'm clear on what to do and what not to do. I know this has been a horribly long post as it is. But I wanted some specific guidance and felt I needed to explain. So to all that will wade through what I just typed and consider offering some help... I thank you.

Most Sincerely,

Chad

I'll go ahead and take a stab at this, lol

In regards to question #1, my pups are teething, but I still do a leather bite rag, after all, they don't stop eating food when teething! Now if it becomes too much of a discomfort I will stop when the teething gets too much and will give pig ears instead, etc. I have a female pup that nailed me last wk when I leaned over to get something, prob. could've used stitches. Just keep redirecting, it will eventually pass.

#2... He's a puppy! Of course he's going to show independence. I would rather see that than a clingy pup. Until you're ready to do formal obedience, don't correct him for something he doesn't understand. I don't know too many dogs that work for their handlers just out of love, sorry. Handlers are the motivators when they have something to motivate with, whether it be food, toys, whatever. The people I've seen who believe the in the first method, the dogs work like crap. It's really sad especially when you've seen what they were before these people got them. Make things FUN for the puppy you will have better results.

#3 Your dog has no toys he gets to play with just to play with? I have "our" toys then they have toys they can just be dogs with. Maybe if they have toys/something to chew on, they won't be so bad with you? Just a thought. If you want to start playing with balls on strings, I REALLY recommend Bernard's Building drive and Focus. I started this on 8 wk old puppies with good results so far. Even using it on an older female I just got. Really nice focus, fast sits, etc.

#4 You can do basic house manners, just don't be too harsh. The dog should be livable. Sorry I didn't take a look at the lines, but if there is any softness you can break down a puppy. Even hard puppies can be broken, so I wouldn't think you would want to do ALOT of obedience. I've seen pups who've done formal obedience, advanced obed, then switched over to schutzhund with not very good results. On another note, I think you might have read too much, lol. You're best bet is to go to your Sch club, this all sounds like a very drivey, active working pup. Welcome to our world, lol. It does get better!

Now is the time to be building the bond. I wouldn't stress over the little things. There are subtle ways of letting him know you're in charge, like feeding him, etc. You'd be surprised how much small things show a dog you're the boss. If they forget it, you can show them when they're a few months older.

Others may have different opinions, but this is JMO

Thank you Angela,

My post may seem very elementary to some but I really love my pup and want the best for him. Being that I have no prior experience with "true" working dogs I tend to get somewhat paranoid from time to time. I have no past experiences to look back to in order to put the current situation in perspective. I grew up with GSD's (mainly American BL). But they were never like this little guy.

So you think that it'd be o.k. to allow him toys that are just for him to play with? If he really likes them how will he distinguish between them and the supposedly "really fun toys"? Could it be a problem if he seems more entertained by the toy than interacting with me?

Also, I have the "Building Focus and Grip" tape. I wasn't aware that this could be a possible exercise for a puppy. Just never thought of it that way. You say your having good success with it. Does it help your puppies build containment? What I mean is do your pups get that they must control their energy and wait for the moment when they can explode into drive again? Just seems like a lot for a little fella with a short attention span. I'm curious to know more about how you use this.

Currently I hand feed my pup. All food comes from me. Not a food bowl. Not a stranger or friends. I'm very careful not to over feed. He has crazy food drive as well. I take special care to not devalue the food by free feeding or simply feeding too much. When he's hungry he pushes at me like I were a slot machine. Would this be what you'd consider reinforcing leadership?

I've battled with the independence issue. Obviously he can't focus on me forever. In your opinion should I allow him time to explore? To just be a kid in other words. I've thought of taking him out in the backyard and letting him drive at me for a while and then (before he gets bored) coming up with a release command to just let him "go play". What do you think of this idea?

Do you think I should praise for the biting or attempts to bite? Also being a breeder, you could answer this... How long does teething typically last. My hesitation here is to not let him get munchy or reinforce that thrashing and chewing are good ways to bite. I want him to develop a nice full, calm grip, which he has genetically already. I would like to know more about how you play this game and how often?

Thanks for all the input.

Chad How old is this pup

He will be four months on the nose Monday.

Mine have their toys and we have our toys. I usually let them play with kongs, rope toys. The balls, bite rags, jutes are mine. My pups don't have a problem distinguishing the difference. I bring out the bite rag and they go ballistic. For the Bernard tape, right now I'm just doing the building drive. I'm using a ball with a 2 ft line and build drive that way and get them to hang onto it. If it comes out, we start again, they don't win in that case. You need to build the drive before you do the containment. It's short sessions, maybe 5 min tops a few times a day. I leave them wanting more, never let them tire out with it. Hand feeding is reinforcing leadership. I personally feed on a regular schedule. Hot dogs are the training treat of choice, lol. They only get those when we're working on training for tracking,etc. I always use a release word, mine is just ok so they will learn that exercise is over. Just let the puppy be a puppy except when you're training. That is the time to work on the drive, then later the focus, etc. Teething usually starts about now. Mine are 13 wks and are starting to gnaw. Will be over around 6 months. I would only praise when their biting correctly and on what you want them to bite on! I have a puppy jute and the bite rag, the rag becomes the prey, once they've got it, then regrip (as Ed says Counter) then they win. I then let them hold it calmly while petting them from the side. Ed has a video of Bite training for puppies that's actually pretty good. It goes over as does Bernard on cradling the dog which helps build the trust and calming the dog with the rag. I usually do the bite rag maybe 4 - 5 sessions a wk. They've already been introduced to the helper at the club field for socialization and having someone else do the bite rag so later it won't matter who has it.

Chad sounds like you have gotten good advice in these replys. I start out all my dogs with obedience training as a game then go into working into to the the type of training you want,always a game in the begining. I am training my gsd in rcmp with out the bite work just for tracking and article searches, in the early stages of this. I used diferent toys to redirect biting and working with other toys to develop what i want him to do later when his training gets more formal. I have chosen not to do bite work, i do not have the knowledge of the bite work training. I think it all starts with obedience and redirecting unwanted behavior

Hello Chad. We've never met but I believe we belong to the same SchH club. I am by far and away no expert, but I've been to 2 Flinks seminars and maybe could clarify some things on the tapes. I believe I'm the only one doing any "Flinks" stuff at our club. I'd love to see you pup some time, it was very hard to resist one of those little critters. I won't be there tomorrow night but will be Thurs night. You could also drop me a PM if you like.

I have a high drive puppy his sire is Bastin vom Kokeltal. and his dame is Minkatel vom Parr. This pup is from Alabama K9. This pup is my third shepherd. I have never seen a puppy at 10 weeks with so much drive. I can't get over how at such a young age his focus on me either. I been working with hotdogs and have him sitting,platz and here. I have him walking along side me in a heel and he is focussing right on me. He will sit when I stop. I even have him doing a foose going around me leading him with hotdogs. then will sit on my left. I just can't get him to stop biting my wife. As soon as he seens her he is right after her ankles. I give him something else to chew on and after a few seconds he is right back after her. I even soaked her ankle with bitter apple and he loves that stuff. Any ideas
Ray

Vic's vapor rub.