Hi all, I'm having problems with my young adult APBT refusing to down even though she fully knows the command, to the point that she has a CGC and Therapy Dog cert., so I know it's not an issue with not understanding the command.

I usually ask her to sit/down/stay several times daily indoors/outdoors just to keep her skills up and today is the 3rd day that she freezes in a crouched sit and will run off to her open crate if I continue to ask her to comply or put my hand on her shoulder to guide her down.

When she runs into the crate, I put a slip lead on her and bring her out and try the command leashed. When leashed, she will still cower but will finally down, though she refuses a treat lure.

The only recent change has been my kids (10 & 12) returning to school days and my working with a foster dog she's already familiar with. The other dog is never in the area when I ask her to down, usually not even here at the house at all.


I guess my question is not so much *why* she's doing this as to how should I handle her refusing the down command? I don't want her to feel she can run off when I ask her to do something she dislikes and this is an important command for us doing therapy work.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

I've had her about 5 months and we did go through something similar a month or more back with the "sit" command during walks. She would pretend she didn't know the command, lock her legs when I prompted her with a touch on her rear and only sat when I raised her head high and pressed her end down. I just try to stay non-reactive, ask her to comply then give a correction and keep the session short. Should I give her less free time outside the crate and go back to just feeding/eliminating/training only?

Thanks!

In what specific situation is she failing to comply? How is the situation different from those in which she does comply? Or is she failing to comply each time now?

I understand that you aren't so much asking "why," but "why" might well have a major bearing on how I, at least, would back up in training and remedy the situation.

Did you do the original training?


Welcome to the board, BTW!

Just a thought, is there any chance of an injury or other medical problem which might make downing uncomfortable for her?

I had a dog somewhat like this and I had to go back to marker training. Have her on leash so she can't "run off to her open crate", and get out your clicker and yummy treats and make down a fun game. If she seems to be really struggling only ask her to do it once, when she does give her a fantastic treat, have a party and play tug. (I'm assuming the dog is clicker trained or marker trained and knows the click or mark). Then end the session for now. (Leave on a good note).

It sounds from your description that she's not doing this to be defiant, she's going into avoidance. She knows what you are asking and fully understands but is afraid to comply for some reason or another. A harsh correction would only make things worse. Make it a fun game, but the leash is there to ensure that she can't just run off, and try to make sure if you ask her to go down that she does it (even if it takes a long time). Even if you have to try for a long time and get frustrated, have a party when she does it (try to act really happy and not frustrated).

My guy went from tail-tucked leg lock struggle to me worring about the bruises he's getting on his elbows from slamming into a down position so eagerly with drool coming out.

 Quote: wendy mahoney

... I've had her about 5 months and we did go through something similar a month or more back with the "sit" command during walks. She would pretend she didn't know the command, lock her legs when I prompted her with a touch on her rear and only sat when I raised her head high and pressed her end down.

This, for example, I might see as anxiety about sitting outside of her home territory or not knowing the command as well as you thought. Venue, other cues besides the command itself, a need for more proofing for distraction, pain, and many other factors would be things I might consider before thinking that the dog was "pretending not to know" the command.

 Quote: Angela Burrell

.... she's going into avoidance. She knows what you are asking and fully understands but is afraid to comply for some reason or another.

This is my take, too, from the description.

How old is the dog, BTW?

Just want to add that if the original training was done by someone else or if you did it but would like to go over marker training, easily done here!

I believe (strongly) that it is never a bad idea to back up in training. If there's a problem with any command, I always just start over with it. There is no clearer way to pinpoint what went awry.

Rule out a physical problem, whenever a dog "knows" a command and then suddenly refuses to do it I always look for a hidden injury or soreness.

You may need to involve a chiropractor, vet or canine sports massage therapist

Thanks for the thoughtful (and quick!) advice. I obviously need to go back to my early marker training as I had phased it out, probably after she got her CGC and I slacked off being consistent. I trained her myself using a clicker, then just "Good Girl" as a marker. Okay, I also have Leerburg's Basic, E-collar and Pack dvds, too. :-)
She's about 2yrs now, was found as an adult back in July tied to a street sign with untreated mange and no one has been interested in adopting her. I see her lay down on her own and we practice on all types on surfaces, so I don't think she's uncomfortable. I guess I was just assuming she was being stubborn over the "down". I'll start over w/the clicker again and see how it goes.
Here's a few videos of her doing trick routines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M_G3Goukbw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82G3i_Ds9FI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR9uM7mMsHM
She's one of those super sensitive APBTs that crumble if you overcorrect, so I try to remain upbeat. I did UKC obed years ago with this breed and never got very far, probably because I overcorrected. :-(

 Quote: wendy mahoney

I trained her myself using a clicker, then just "Good Girl" as a marker.

Did you start with food rewards and phase out to praise (Good Girl)?

Edit: Oh, I get it. You started with the clicker as the marker and changed to Good Girl. Duh.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (12/31/1969 06:00 PM)
Edit reason: edit

What a nice dog!