Hi Everyone-

I bought the pack structure dvd awhile back but I was really hoping in the back of my mind that I would not have to use it and that all my dogs would get along BUT I think that was wishful thinking... Anyway, fero & sampson are starting to have some squawbles (not full blown fights) and there's only been a couple but I know without intervention that it will get worse.
I dont believe fero sees me as the leader at all and Sampson has been resource guarding me- anytime fero comes around me he tries to block him and growls, etc which I know is not good. I've probably done alot wrong with these guys but things have been pretty good till recently. maybe because sampson is maturing (18 months) and fero (3yrs) may be worrying about losing his place in the pack? Whatever the reason I know it needs corrected. My question is do they have to be taken out everytime on a leash to potty or can I let one out and put back up the let the other one out and put back up? I'm talking in the morning when i get up, its dark and its been super cold lately, I know that sounds wimpy of me but I am a wus when it comes to the cold (I really miss California). Does everything Ed suggests have to be followed exactly??? Also, my older dog Major (8 yrs) isnt having any problems with them so can I just let him function as normal through all this? And what about feeding in the crates, how do you keep it clean from the raw meat just wipe down after each meal? I may have more questions as I go through this with them....

If you can ensure that one dog is completely secured in it's kennel before you remove the second dog from it's kennel, then yes, you could dispense with the leash. Or invest in a nice drag leash, and just let him take his leash out with him while you stay in the nice warm doorway.

While I don't think that every single aspect of Ed's advice necessarily applies to every situation, in your case I would say follow the advice to a T. The ability to discern which parts are critical and which parts aren't really comes with experience; and you don't want to learn the hard way (nasty dog fight) that you excluded a critical portion of the advice.

I would include Major in the crating, rotating routine. If the other dogs get frustrated at their inability to get at one another, they may redirect that onto Major- and old dogs don't deserve to put up with that crap. Protect him by making sure he is safely in his crate when one of the other dogs is loose in the home. If he avoids the other dogs, he can be loose while you've got another dog tethered to you. (ONLY if he has good obedience and will stay away from you and the other dog!)

I occassionally wipe down my dog's crate with those spiffy Clorox wipes, but usually, I don't worry about it.
She usually does a decent job of wiping it down with her tongue.
If the crate smells, I'll wipe it down. Otherwise, I rarely even look in her crate, let alone clean it these days.

IMO (which is just that...and you know what they say about opinions...) you need to keep it 2x2. Like Noah did.

I think your sig pic is very nice...but to be honest, the first time I saw it I thought you were asking for trouble. To address your question about Major, I'd say just because he's not having a problem w/either of them doesn't mean his mere presence isn't causing problems. Three is a whole different dynamic. The third doesn't have to participate in "squabbles" to be involved, if that makes sense. Maybe they see him as alpha and fight each other for 2nd place. You don't know what they see, what they think, and your best bet is to go 2x2, if you absolutely must. I prefer 1x1, myself, when it comes to same sex issues.

Thanks for the reply Alyssa, I will set Major's crate up tonight although I may need to get a bigger one since he has hip problems and not sure the one I got will be big enough for him to spread out.
I was just reading another thread about a lady with 4 dogs with kinda the same problem. She was told to do obedience with them everyday while doing the pack structure stuff (crating, only out for potty, etc.) because it wouldnt be enough interaction with them but I thought Ed says not to worry about obedience until you get your leadership established, and part of that is ignoring them and being aloof. Maybe start in a couple weeks if all goes well? I have not watched all of the video yet, started watching it last night and will probably take me a couple days to finish, so I may be missing something in the video...

Hi Jenni,
Yeah, yeah, I know all about the saying about opinions - LOL

Im guessing by the 2X2 like Noah you mean the most dogs people should own at one time is 2? But best is only 1 at one time? - Which may be true..But I have 3 and their here for the long haul, even if it does come down to that the 2 cannot ever be loose together again, I'm willing to deal with that. I will do whatever is best for them, I will go ahead and make major a part of this also as far as crating, etc because it could be true that he causing part of the problem even if hes not physically involved. thank you

NO! Not at all! I meant only let them out 2x2, LOL. I have 6!

AAAHHHH, Sometimes I wonder about myself- I think it might be the blonde streaks I have put in my hair or something!!! LOL thanks for clarifying.....

ok, I think I'm going to go crazy with this, I've started the pack structure- all time in the crate except to potty and a walk which has only been once because of the freezing cold weather. I've started tying them to me each for alittle while in the morning and alittle while when I get home at night but all they do is whine, bark, howl when I'm at home and their in their cages. Anytime I put a coat on to go out, take out the trash, etc. they just go nuts....I feel terrible for them, like I'm being unfair. I'll be off for 4 days here starting tomorrow night and the weather is suppose to get alittle warmer so I can walk them. Has anyone gone thru this and was it this bad?? When their acting like that I shouldnt do anything about it right?? Fero is having cage aggression when major walks in the room where his cage is at, should I ignore that? Hes fine when hes out of the cage.. I'm just feeling like I;m at my wits ends and wondering if what I;m doing is right...Maybe I'm just looking for some encouragement because right now I'm not happy about this......

I totally know where you are coming from. I just got a german shepherd and i already had two yorkies. When I first got her I let her run around and thought i was being mean using the crate. But after watching the video you have been watching I realized that it is in her best interest to keep her safe and not have to get rid of her bc of her and my yorkie not getting along. She was not used to being in it at first alot. She would see me put on my coat and start being like yours' but it did get better. Dont even look at them or acknowledge them, just leave and dont make a big deal about it. They will get used to it in time. I promise it gets easier. They can read your stress and emotions so try to relax about it.

Dear Kathy: WHen I got my new dogs I had never crated dogs before. Because mine came from a rescue shelter, they were in the process of being crate trained. Their foster mom had to crate them to take them places where they would have a chance to be adopted. I probably would not have crated them had I not had Ed's video on pack structure. At first the dogs complained. I ignored them completely. However, a few months later they started loving their crate. In their crate, no one can bother them. They can sleep in peace, or just lay there chewing on a bone. Whenever I put them in I would throw a treat inside. Now when I tell them it is time for their nap (I make them rest in their crate each day for about 2 hours),they run to the bedroom door and sit excitedly at the door of the crate. I toss a treat in and they run in to get it.
I make sure they always get the best treats when they are crated, and the biggest juicy bones.
Take courage, they will learn to love it.
At night they sleep in their crates when we go to bed. Even when I let my older dog Bindi snuggle on the bed with me for about 5 minutes before I go to sleep, when she seeing my husband come out of the bathroom, ready for bed, she immediately jumps down and sits in front of her crate.
THings will get better, don't give up!!
Merry Christmas