I took a video with my cell, but I can't figure out how to get it on my PC, so I'll just give the best description I can. My dog has almost always had a problem going too fast. Begining tracks were circular, and each step was baited. I let him run around and eat the bait until he got back to the pad where he started then he was calmly pulled away. He did this slow and rythmically. We progressed from there, but again he is moving too fast. Popping his collar just seems to confuse him. If I do that he looks at me, or gets off the track, or makes a circle. He can track a 450 pace track, but here is what he is doing now, regardless of length. I lay the track, I can bait every step or do it randomly, doesnt really matter. The track is aged 10-20 min, that does not seem to really be a factor either. He starts the track and charges off, and (mostly) stays on the track but he doesn't check each step, and won't eat the food. Afterward, if I bring him back to the start of the track and do it over again, he does an almost perfect track. Nice and slow, checking all steps, & rythmic. This is with no rewards at the end of the track, only on it. Any ideas?

Was there a big reward on the end with the circular tracks making him think there's a jackpot at the end?

Nope, no rewards at the end of the track. Only rewards during the track.

Okay, Matthew, I'm going to jump in here even though there are several million people more talented at tracking than I am (including my dog).

Carbon had similar issues at Triple Crown and I had some great advice and an accident that helped solve his desire to rapid-track.

First, in my sleep-deprived state, I tracked him on a full belly. I normally didn't do that, and being full made a noticable difference...which was weird because he skipped food in the tracks, too, in his haste.

As far as the advice I got:

Lay a tail track of 10 or so baited paces prior to the flag/start pad. Helped settle him down and get him in the zone. Also, giving him a bit of a walk prior to tracking helped too, as most of the time he was either crated or in the car while I laid my track and needed a short time to get the crazies out. I'm wondering if that may be what's going on with your dog since the second time around you said he is more focused.

As far as the pace goes, I set it, period. I didn't use any corrections as that would have just make him unsure. I tried to stay consistant with the pace that I wanted.

The other thing I wonder is do you think that he may be rushing to get the jackpot even after you've phased it out because that's what his foundation was? Did you originally train with a reward at the end? If so, how long have you been withholding it?

Finally, when I started adding the articles and varying the track length/corners, etc., and stopped baiting every footstep I saw more improvement. Searching for an article vs. just heading to the end pad seemed to change things a bit.

Carbon was skipping food too but clearly loved the tracking. He still checked the footsteps but only occassionally picked up the food. Phasing much of the food out helped a lot.

Carbon would still rather zoom. But I see that more as a training issue I've taken on to make the judge happy, rather than an indication that he's not "getting" the scent. He doesn't need to examine each step as much as I want him to to know it's there. He goes slower because I'm training him to...bottom line, IMO.

I'm certainly still a novice tracker and have no idea if my input is worth the electricity spent typing this. Hopefully more seasoned trackers will weigh in and set me straight!

With that in mind, I do have a question, though...why are you retracking him on the original track? Aren't you then asking him to track through not only the original track but then a second set of your footsteps and his as well? Maybe that's why he's slower the second go-round! I don't know what type of tracking you're training for (SchH?) but I haven't heard of doing that before and I'm curious.

I am, and have always baited 6-10 paces before the scent pad. I make sure he has not eaten for at least 8-12 hours. But I have not really been walking him, I suppose I will start trying that now. I have never used the jackpot at the end, maybe a few pieces of kibble or an article, but that's it. It sounds that Melee may be having some of the same issues that Carbon was having. Now as far as setting the pace goes, I can slow down to set the pace but then it creates a tight leash (or dog-on-a-stick) which is why I would slightly pop the line. Now normally I would not retrack him over the same track, but I have recently done it a couple of times just to see what he would do. And yes, schutzhund tracking.

 Quote: matthew thurston

I make sure he has not eaten for at least 8-12 hours.

So, would try feeding him once right before tracking and see if you notice a difference. Out of everything I did, feeding him a little before tracking made the most noticable improvement on his speed until my training could catch up. It's worth a shot, anyway. Good luck and I would love to know if that helps at all.

Again, the speed is, IMO, a training issue and therefore must be taught as any other training issue...with patience and consistancy and time. There are some tricks that I have learned to slow Carbon down, but ultimately it's still training. I've been told that talented trackers who get the game will want to go fast...to the dog it's "why wait?". So it's up to me to add that slower is another "rule" to the game and that obviously goes more slowly than their natural ability and inclination to track.

I said that I didn't correct Carbon, but what I meant was that I never did it again. I corrected Carbon once for his speed and I'm sorry I did it. He clearly didn't know what the correction was for because I hadn't made it clear through training that he was to go slower yet. The result was that he didn't know what I wanted and I got the result that you got: looking at me, getting off the track and he indicated on nothing--all in an attempt to figure out what I wanted. It wasn't fair and I had to take a step back and undo that confusion.

I saw a couple of highly accomplished dogs at TCA whose handlers were still dealing with the fallout from too many corrections too early in tracking. I'd rather set a good foundation and only correct after the dog actually knows what I want.

Still, I've know that there are other methods than those I'm using and I wouldn't call myself an expert tracker. I'm still hoping others will join in with some advice because I'm interested in how others have solved what I know is a common problem.

Hmm, I might try feeding him a little before we start the track. I had not considered that. And just so were clear, the corrections were just very light pops on the leash and he is a pretty hard dog. None the less it did still confuse him. I think what your'e saying makes sense though, thanks for weighing in.

Are you tracking in a straight line, similar to what you would do in a trial? If so, stop straght lines, make wide sweeping serpentines in both directions and age your track longer. My current dog is a chow hound, if I do not feed a little before hand, he is hectic when tracking.

Hey Mathew, I got some good advice here on the same question.
Slow Down
The multiple tracks is very good. 3 tracks, not too long. At first you'll probably see him track the third one better then the first. Once he's doing all three well you can progress. On the third track you can add the serpentines like Susan said and corners, whatever.

 Quote: susan tuck

Are you tracking in a straight line, similar to what you would do in a trial? If so, stop straght lines, make wide sweeping serpentines in both directions and age your track longer.

He started tracking in a circle and then we branched of from there to serpentines, and are now doing 3 straight legs on a single track. He had the same issues tracking serpentine, the only time he didn't was on a circular track. Aged longer than 20 min?