First off, I want to say how much I continue to appreciate this website and all the knowledge I've gained here. I read as many of the posts as I have time for, and it's help me to build a new understanding of human relationships with dogs.

Now my problem: Some of you probably remember the aggression issues I've had with my dog, Cerbie, who is nearing 3y/o now. I am still curious about a certain behavior he occassionally shows, most often with "the boyfriend." I've determined that he is probably not the most fond of petting, and feels threatened by it, especially if he's laying down. I will occassionally pet him when he's laying down briefly, and he'll just look a little cautiously at me, but I don't prolong it so the aggression never comes. Plus, it seems that Cerbie has a large amount of trust for me.

Cerbie will approach my boyfriend, who is often sitting on the couch watching TV, and happily greet him (after being let out of the crate or coming in from a walk). He'll enjoy a brief amount of petting, but then it's like a switch is flipped and his ears go back, and his eyes suddenly look very suspicious. If the petting were to continue (which it doesn't, and he'll just walk away and lay down, looking suspicious still) I have no doubt the teeth would bare next and there could be a bite.

In another post, someone had recommended not putting the dog into a sit or other position he has to hold and subject him to petting. That way if he decides it's enough he can just walk away. We've been doing that, but this still occurs. I know you shouldn't allow a dog to be pushy for attention, but what if we've called the dog to us, not given a sit command, given some affection and this happens? It isn't every time. What if the dog has been pushy and received affection? Would that matter?

We're confused by this, because it seems as though he really wants the affection, but then suddenly he's conflicted and takes it as threatening. I spoke with my vet about it today, and he said it could be a chemical imbalance, that it is possible for him to be happy and wanting affection and at the same time feeling anger towards us for it.

Thanks for any thoughts about this! For the most part we're doing great!

 Quote: stephanie biros

I spoke with my vet about it today, and he said it could be a chemical imbalance, that it is possible for him to be happy and wanting affection and at the same time feeling anger towards us for it.

With all respect, may I suggest that asking most vets about behavioral or training issues is kinda like asking the dentist about your broken leg.


What kind of petting is this? On the head? Does the human get closer, or maybe stray from back to head?

There are many dogs who feel very threatened by petting that obstructs vision/hearing/nose .... that is, head fondling. Other thing threaten other dogs.

Can you clarify "and this happens," near the end? Do you mean "and the dog walks away" or "and then the dog bares his teeth and warns the human off"?

If I remember correctly, we'd talked about his issues w/your boyfriend, and he didn't seem too unlike one of my dogs when it comes to petting. IMO, he doesn't like to be pet. Period. He tolerates it from you, but your bf is a stretch for him. Just because he greets him happily does not mean he wants to be rubbed. Again, JMO, but like Connie said, I'd disregard the vet's opinion. Remember, they mostly work with dead dogs in school, lol.

How long before looks suspicious or unhappy? W/mine, he is fine w/me petting him for a second, and then he gets wiggly and agitated, but not upset, then runs off to grab a toy or something. He likes to be WITH me and NEAR me, but doesn't like being touched and would rather play than lie around and be affectionate. They are individuals, and we as humans tend to think all dogs like physical affection...and they don't.

There is a big difference, and IMO, most people assume a dog approaching them in a friendly manner wants to be pet. Mine will do "drive-bys" w/people he likes where he happily runs around them, grabs toys, gets close enough to touch as he runs by, but to sit and be pet? Forget it! He walks away every time. If I push it, which sometimes I do just for fun (I know, I am terrible) and bear hug him, he shakes loose from it like an embarrassed child. I would not allow a bf to try the same thing b/c the relationship is not there and I have not taught him to tolerate this kind of invasion of space (which I really think is Cerbie's interpretation by your posts).

If I am mixing you up w/someone else or am dead wrong, my apologies.

 Quote: stephanie biros

We're confused by this, because it seems as though he really wants the affection, but then suddenly he's conflicted and takes it as threatening.

Are you absolutely certain he wants affection? Perhaps he just wants to greet you and have some attention or a little interaction?

Or, a couple of pats on his side would be fine, then he's done? (Pats are way different than stroking petting.)

My GSD never wants people to pet her, besides myself and my husband. And, there are proper times (as far as she's concerned) for this kind of affection, and many more times that are just not appropriate.

She loves to greet people; for her, that means coming up, touching their knee with her nose, then immediately looking for some object with which to engage in play. (I liked Jenni's description of a drive by<g>.) If someone tries to pet her, her head just moves enough to be slightly out of reach.

If your dog doesn't like to be petted, then why make it an issue? Or, if a pat or two will do it for him, then leave it at that.

I'm not saying you're like this, but I've run into so many people who can't seem to get over a dog not wanting to be petted. They seem to take it personally, no matter how I explain it to them. Mostly, I don't bother any more. I just make sure my dog isn't subjected to anything she doesn't want from anyone.

leih

Stephanie,
So what happens if you or your bf just say hello, give him a couple of scratches behind the ears and say enough? Does he go lay down or does he continue to push for more until he's had enough? Do you/bf virtually hold him (sit/stay, etc) to be pet against his will?
My dog also likes people........Doesn't particularly like to be pet though, even by me.

If you follow your vet's advice be prepared to absorb a big bill to confirm or discount a chemical imbalance.
Myself, I'd bet against the vets guess.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

Connie, "and this happens" means his ears go back, his eyes suddenly look angry/suspicious, and what has in the past followed next (when we've continued the petting) is the teeth baring/ growling/ biting. We don't push it so far anymore, but it does upset my boyfriend who thinks the dog has come up to him for attention and then suddenly changes.

LOL about the dentist helping a broken leg!!! Good point!!! He was just following up on the issue I brought him in with the last time, and I've only dealt with this guy's wife, so I thought I'd hear his take on it. The way he and his assistant handled Cerbie during bloodwork spoke volumes about how they know to handle dogs. He had a muzzle on and baby talked him as he squirmed. I just said "Stay still Cerbie" in a firm, unwavering tone that I use with him while I give him the Adequan injections, and he was then fine, stood perfectly still. Then the vet said to me "oh, he's being a good boy", acting like I was being mean and uncaring towards my dog. I now know I can and do expect certain behavior at certain times (like around a sharp needle!)

Jenni, you are on target, you remember me and my situation perfectly!! It just seems odd that he'll act like he wants affection (human interpretation) but then seems annoyed by it.

But like you all point out (sometimes I need reminders!), not all dogs care to have affection. Perhaps he just wants to be greeted, perhaps patted, then that's it. I always tell people he doesn't enjoy being pet, and I told the vet as he and the assistant continued to try to pet him! Certain times it's ok, but others it's clearly not. I just wanted to make sure this wasn't something I need to address.

Sorry, Randy, posting when you did!

If my bf just gives him a quick pet then says enough (as he will do if he's busy on the computer) Cerbie just goes and lays down. He doesn't push for more. We don't put him in a sit/ stay any longer to be pet. We were (months ago) initially calling him to us and putting him in a sit, as I learned was good to do, but had to be corrected by "those who know" that for my particular situation, with a dog who doesn't enjoy the petting, this wasn't a good idea. That should only be for dogs that enjoy being pet.

My whole view of dogs is different now. This dog has been a challenge but also a huge learning opportunity.

I think your dog is like mine, Leih's, and Randy's. Sure, he likes you guys and wants to say hi, but he doesn't want to be physically smothered. Caleb always reminds me of a teenage boy when I get too affectionate. Sometimes, I want to hug my dog, dammit!!! He squirms after about 2 seconds, then breaks loose, has himself a good shake to get rid of that awful warm fuzzy feeling I gave him, and runs off to get into mischief. It's just how he is-with ME.

With OTHERS- it's more like you described. He will tolerate a child petting him if I tell him he has to, but an adult better not linger for more than a few seconds, and better not get in his face. If he cannot walk away, and someone really pushed him, I would not be surprised if he took it to Cerbie's level.

It sounds to me like Cerbie is trying to be patient w/your bf but he's really finding him annoying. LOL.

I wouldn't worry about it if this is all that's going on. Get your bf a dog who likes to be pet, LOL. I am glad to have mine that enjoy affection! It is often hard when we love these animals so much and have such a relationship with them to remember that they have different needs in terms of "love' and "affection." We always want to try to put our own needs/wants onto them.

I read a great article pertaining to horses that talked about this. A horse will give affection by getting very close to you or another horse, and often very close horses will "share air." The article said that we as humans always want to ruin that moment when our horse is being affectionate in his horsey way (by just putting his head very close to you and being still). We always want to grab them and hug them or rub their faces. That's not what they want, and that is not affection to a horse; that's an invasion. Different species, but the article made a lot of sense.

I hope that BF takes an expert with him to choose his dog when he looks for one that loves to be petted. I hope too that is fully aware that a new dog and your dog may not be "friends."