hi everyone, this is my first post. i joined this forum because i love dogs and the advice i read from posters seems great. i would describe myself as a "novice" dog trainer.
i love my 2 dogs, a choc lab and a boxer. here is my first and most important question. first i will describe the situation: we live on the second floor in an old house. so when we come in the door, there is a bottom landing, then some stairs, and the top landing. our dogs greet us at the top every time they are out of their kennel. if someone besides us comes in they run down and greet them and there is no room for that.
i have read some ceasar millan and some other training books/websites. because they are above us, does that give them the idea they are more "dominant" or the "pack leader"? it has been bugging me for a while!! i am just wondering if we should keep them away from the stairs unless they are going out.

also a quick note, i saw the marker training video and am going to order it when i get the funds. i bought the i-click and spend a few minutes a day with my lab just getting him used to it. he sits, lays down, and drops a ball at my feet now! i am concerned about marker training two dogs and how to approach that as well.

 Quote: hannah davis

.... we live on the second floor in an old house. so when we come in the door, there is a bottom landing, then some stairs, and the top landing. our dogs greet us at the top every time they are out of their kennel. if someone besides us comes in they run down and greet them and there is no room for that.
i have read some ceasar millan and some other training books/websites. because they are above us, does that give them the idea they are more "dominant" or the "pack leader"? it has been bugging me for a while!! i am just wondering if we should keep them away from the stairs unless they are going out.

Unless I'm missing something, I guess that my concern would be that the dogs run down where you don't want them. But have you worked on a command for door behavior? Or if you're not ready for commands from the bottom of the stairs, then can you (owner) go up before guests enter in order to enforce door/guest behavior?

 Quote: hannah davis

...also a quick note, i saw the marker training video and am going to order it when i get the funds. i bought the i-click and spend a few minutes a day with my lab just getting him used to it. he sits, lays down, and drops a ball at my feet now! i am concerned about marker training two dogs and how to approach that as well. ...

So you have read or otherwise learned enough marker training to have trained the dog sit, etc.? That's great! Where is the other dog during sessions? My dogs do watch while one is having a session, and they all love marker work. But it depends ... how does it work out now? What is your concern, specifically? Do you mean you wonder about training them at the same time? Or what?

And welcome to the board!

I don't want to hijack, but I'd be interested in hearing about "Do you mean you wonder about training them at the same time? "...I hope it will be the answer (i didn't find an efficient way to train my two dogs together with marker training)

 Quote: mike bellemare

..... (i didn't find an efficient way to train my two dogs together with marker training)

No, I can't picture a good way to do that either. I'm thinking that the question might be more of a "can they be in view?" thing.

connie, in reply to you first post, i guess i got it in my head that if they were higher than me they wouldn't listen to my commands later, and i know we have a struggle for who is the pack leader. they are totally out of control when people come in though. so no command for "door behavior". help!! it takes them like 20 minutes to calm down when someone comes over. i know in part is to my boyfriend greeting them enthusiastically when he comes home.

and the other part mike, and connie again. usually i send the boxer into the other room when i am training the lab. i don't want him to hear the click and then not get a treat. he would probably whine if i didn't give him a treat too.

i dont know if i could handle training them at the same time (like tell them both to sit and then click when each one does. this would be if each had their own clicker?). how do your dogs know the click and treat is for them or another dog? i thought i had to use different clickers for different dogs. i couldn't really find any info on training 2 dogs and if there were any rules on it.

i guess i would like to know HOW TO APPROACH TRAINING TWO DOGS, and HOW TO TEACH THEM TO GREET PEOPLE IN A CIVILIZED MANNER.

sidebar: basically the boxer is totally inbred and i am convinced he has half a brain. we are in the middle of pressing charges against his breeder. he only had one testicle descend, has 2 luxating patellas and she sold him to my boyfriend with mange. and his parents are both papered, but obviously the woman is running a puppy mill. i dont know if there is any hope for him. we have to crate him all day because he is destructive when left alone. and he howls when we leave (like DISTURBING howls/sounds like a 13 year old boy!). he doesn't ride in the car well, along with many, many other issues. i honestly should have worked with him before getting the other dog.

anyway, i tried to reply as detailed and clearly as possible! any ideas would be great, maybe a recommendation on where to start. i have a feeling it will be "back to the basics". i know first and foremost i want to change MY behavior and be a better owner!
thank you in advance!

Loki goes nuts when people come over too, so we just put him away for about half an hour until his brain is working again.

When we want to work with them in the same room I have my husband hold the leash of the dog I am not working with. This weekend we are going to try both working with them separately on leash in the same room with the clickers.

I will first admit to being too lazy to use a clicker, but I have often worked 2 or more (several more, at times) dogs at once. I would wait until they are solid in the commands by themselves to start this. We used to just preface each command with the dog's name. Say we had Caleb, Blaster, Apollo, and Shooter all lying in the grass. We might start with "Caleb, sitz." Then "Apollo, heir." Then "Blaster, wait." Then "Shooter, packen!" There are infinite combinations and it's a great control under distraction exercise.

They do learn (much faster than you'd think!) to listen for their name. The hardest part is to be diligent and make sure you say their name every time though.

NOW>>> I don't think you are near that point yet. I only mentioned this to give hope that it IS quite possible to get to a point where you can work 2 or more dogs together. Again I will admit to clicker ignorance...but why couldn't you use their names before marking??? I might be missing something huge...sorry if so.

Start with only one dog out and have someone come to the door. Switch and repeat enough that you can have each dog (alone) be calm when someone comes over. Then try to do simple OB exercises with both of them together to get them used to listening under greater distraction and exercising greater control. Then, you should (in theory, LOL) be able to progress to having them in a down/stay or whatever position you desire when guests arrive.

I urge that you get the marker video.

Short answer is that It doesn't matter if the dog you are not working with can see but is not right there beside the dog you are working with.

Marker-reward is for complying with a command. If you did not command the other dog, there is no marker-reward regardless of what behavior he might offer. Same goes for the dog you ARE working with, in fact.



P.S. Yes, I use the names first, too. But as Jennifer says, her husband holds the other dog's leash, and I betcha that even if he wants in on the marker-rewards, he is not mistaking commands given to the other dog as meant for him.

Yep. They know when they're being addressed and when they're not. For sure. Same principal as not rewarding for a behavior you didn't ask for, IMO.

 Quote: Jenni Williams

I will first admit to being too lazy to use a clicker

I use a verbal marker.

Now it turns out that for teaching new behaviors, the verbal marker is only about 2/3 as efficient as the clicker. This is for new behaviors only.

Interesting!

http://www.clickertraining.com/files/Wood_Lindsay_CLICKER_BRIDGING_STIMULUS_EFFICACY.pdf