As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I'm new to serious dog training. The Leerburg tapes and articles have really opened my eyes and, in the month that I've been working with my puppy, I feel quite accomplished. It's pretty exciting for me seeing the methods work...

I'm a member on a few other forums and because I'm excited about this working for me, I'm obviously going to speak out about it. Being a satisfied customer, I say good things--and basically become a Leerburg advertisement.

Well...I guess Ed Frawley is one of those types that you either love or you hate...and I got hammered by hate messages for mentioning him and his "coercion tactics"...which really bothered me.

So I fired back at these people...because from what I can see, what Ed says to do, basically parallels their training. Food rewards, toy rewards, praise etc. One difference...corrections. So I asked these people...when your dog does know the command but doesn't obey the command, WHAT DO YOU DO?

In my mind I had a picture of the typical person screaming and nagging their dog to obey the command over and over again...the answer I got back was even better....


There's a fantastic post somewhere about a woman whose dog blew off a cue, so she hopped in the car (the dog loved car rides) and drove off without him. Another time, I think a different dog, she whipped a cheeseburger out of her pocket and took a big bite in front of him. The dogs learned - quite quickly - that by not doing what was asked, they missed out on Something Good.
I'm just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this whatsoever. Again, I'm a newb, but I felt like laughing my ass of when I read this...is this serious? Does this really work?

I'm not convinced at all that this would be any kind of effective way of training a dog...And what kind of person carries a big cheeseburger around in their pocket?

Ahhh...the folks that call dog training "coercion" also want to be called "animal guardians" instead of "pet owners".

Yeah, whatever......... :rolleyes:


And welcome to the board, Ken - hope it helps you in your goals!


And I&#039;m sure that many women have seen me in tight pants and said to themselves...."man, he must be carrying a cheeseburger in his pocket".... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

A little McDonald&#039;s Cheeseburger.

And I&#039;m sure that many women have seen me in tight pants and said to themselves...."man, he must be carrying a cheeseburger in his pocket".... That was my exact thought when I saw this picture....
http://www.leerburg.com/309.htm

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

That photo was taken after waaay too many cheeseburgers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ken,
You are so right! I&#039;m also new to serious dog training. I am like a sponge with Ed&#039;s tapes! My 2 gsd&#039;s are the envy of the neighborhood. I love it! I&#039;m a newbie and my dogs go down from wherever I am so neighbors can walk by with their unruly pets on halti&#039;s or even off lead like maniacs.
One guy walks by with an am staff on a halti, boy is that one frustrated dog. He really needs the tapes. Another neighbor asked me to do "neighborhood training" because apparently they talk about my dogs and how awsome they behave. lol!!! I&#039;ve given her Ed&#039;s address.......
If only they&#039;d listen!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just got a laugh out of it myself. I think Mr. Frawley really knows his stuff, and while I&#039;m sure there are other ways to train a dog---why bother?

What really pisses me off about these folks is they act like I don&#039;t care about my dog and I&#039;m doing more harm then good.

And I got a good laugh because I asked if they had even WATCHED any of Ed&#039;s tapes and the answer was no...nothing like being open minded.

Will, do you loose competition points when the dog heels only on two legs like that? The cheeseburger in your armpit is quite unfair IMHO. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I can see it now... Cheeseburger scented underarm deoderant...


Seriously, I have seen people who believe in time outs and substituting another dog for the reward, but I haven&#039;t seen those dogs perform any more consistantly. What it has done is make for a very entertaining bit of commentary from the sidelines.

I got my puppies prong today and I&#039;m wearing it as I type this...it&#039;s only fair.

When I was in the Marine Corps, I had to zap myself with a stun gun and got nailed by tazer and pepper spray--that way I know what it&#039;s like before I use it on someone else...same thing here.

Actually...this thing is kind of a joke..I&#039;m really surprised everyone gets so worked up about prong collars.

It&#039;s not a comfortable thing, and I&#039;m sure if you gave the dog a real good pop that it would rip him out of his happy place, but it&#039;s not as nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />