I have three adult dogs. My 2 males are about the same age 2.5 and 3. My female has been spayed but is about 7 years old. I would like to start the pack leader video asap. My question is how do I first go about this? Ive watched the video and taken notes. Ive began to get all the equipment. How often would I need to let them out to go "potty" during the day? Would I need to change the program up some because of the fact that they are strictly outdoor dogs? Since I work would it be ok to leave them crated the whole time im at work? I just need a little help. Its just me for the most part and I have a 2 year old little girl. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated thanks

"Equipment" meaning crates?

"Outdoor" meaning all left loose in a fenced yard together? Or kenneled?

To be clear, they are now outdoor dogs, kenneled, but now will be crated indoors?


P.S. What has been happening?

Also, welcome to the board.




Edited by Connie Sutherland (02/07/2009 10:13 AM)
Edit reason: ps

equipment as in crates yes. Outdoor as in they are separated at all times. They have always been outdoor dogs and will Always be but i want to get some kind of leadership with them. I mean since they will be outside all the time do i still need to do the program the same? At this point in time everyone is separated all the time even when im around because they don't always listen. (which is my fault) so if a fight between my two males broke out there would be no way i would be able to control the situation. And some time, later on in the future i would like them to be able to play and interact with each-other rather than just through the fence when supervised.

I still need more. They are separated by fences?

And you want them to be indoors instead? I'm lost between "always will be outdoors" and the thing about crating them inside while you are at work. Sorry.

And do you work with each dog on basic obedience? Every day? Where are you with that? Have you done marker work? Or what? When you say "they don't listen," is this with regard to all commands or mainly about dog-dog aggression?

You should be aware that three outdoor dogs playing and interacting unsupervised is not going to happen, and that it isn't even desirable (in my opinion, anyway).

How long have you had three? Any particular reason you decided on having three dogs? (I think of three as a pretty special situation, requiring a lot of handler work and energy. I do it, but 'm not blase about how much time and commitment it costs, and I really don't recommend it as a general rule. As Ed says, three dogs is a pack, and much different from one or even two.)

Maybe your goal is more that you can be with them and in control of them for supervised periods?

Has something been happening that you have as a first focus? Is there fence-fighting?

well we used to have 15 acres of land but now i live in town. One of the dogs in my brothers but now days it seems like hes more my responsibility. At the moment the two males are separated my an electric fence but at the door where their is no wire is where the problem comes. It used to be when ever i got near the fence to pet one or the other they would start growling and kinda snapping at eachother. The situation has calmed down now to where they dont do that as much. Sorry about the confusion with the inside outside thing. What i want to happen eventually is for the dogs to be able to be out while supervised together so that they may interact and play without a huge fight breaking out. As for obedience they know some commands but when they dont feel like listening they dont.So really right now im trying to establish some kind of leadership with all the dogs then move on to the obedience thing more. Then eventually be able to have a Supervised period where they can play. So the crate training thing i was just going with from the Pack leader movie. With strictly outside dogs(as in they only come into the garage if its an emergency kinda thing)I wasn't sure if i still did the crate training thing for the fisrt week or two as recommended or how i would approach that.

I am confused too.

I think you have three outdoor dogs that are in three "invisible" - electric- kennels (hopefully with dog houses)? And you want to crate them all out in the yard instead?

If so, I think you should build 3 actual secure kennels. Leaving a dog confined to a crate outside while you are not home is not a good idea. Unless you crate them in a garage or sheltered area where they can have access to water and warm enough bedding.

A secure

Some dogs can never be together without fighting.

Also, working on pack structure with 3 dogs is extremely difficult and time consuming, as you need to spend one on one time building a relationship with each dog. It can be done but it will require a huge commitment on your part. Ask yourself whether you are in over your head. You may need to accept that the dogs cannot ever run together. You might eventually be able to run them in pairs (supervised of course) but not all three.

OKi understand that i may not be able to have them altogether and thats fine. I just need how to go along with this training for them. I understand it will take time and that they need 1 on 1 time. As for the crates I was using them as they did in the video.To show leadership. They will be inside a large shed, so its not like im going to leave them outside in the cold or rain. I just want to know how to do it since they will be outside dogs. I need to get better control of these dogs. i just need to know how to do it. I know it will be hard and three is bad but thats how many i have so im gunna have to deal with it.

Good for you for sticking with it.

The point of using crates inside the house is to control the dog's environment. In other words, he can't just do whatever he wants whenever he wants. He cannot bark at the door, or be pushy for attention, for example. He needs to wait until YOU the OWNER decides it is time to eat, go pee, walk, etc. You control and micromanage his whole environment and he doesn't get to do anything unless you say.

Outside this could be accomplished with three dog kennels. You don't have to use crates. The dogs will still have to wait until YOU let them out in order to get food, toys, interaction, walks, etc. There would be no running loose doing whatever he feels like. (everything is done on leash or long line) and NO playing with each other until groundwork and pack leadership is established.

You will not be sorry if you build kennels, even small ones, because you will always have them and can separate the dogs or put them away at any time.

ok so with the kennels i do the same thing as i would do with the crate. I still feed them in the kennel and let them out when i need them out. ok . so how big do they need to be? obviously they will need to be big enough for a dog house to fit and some room for them to move to some extent.I have a husky, lab mix and a heeler mix. WIll i still need to let them out to go potty still? Would it be ok if i built the kennels next to each other or would i need them to be more spread out?

Edited by Hope DeLaGarza (02/12/2009 08:25 AM)
Edit reason: forgot some questions

The bigger the better with the kennels especially if they are going to be spending quite abit of time in there - I am in the process of making mine bigger (just waiting on some nice weather) I currently have 2 kennels that are I think 7x10? I'm putting those 2 together to make a 14X20 and then I bought some kennel panels to make a 12X18 kennel- (my dogs are 85 & 100lbs though) My current kennels are next to each other but I have a tarp between them so the 2 dogs cant see each other - when I get the new kennels up they will be more separated. I;m not sure about the potty thing being that your dogs are strictly outside dogs-my dogs will not go pee/poop in the kennels but they are only in there when I'm not home otherwise they take turns being out in the house with me while the other one is in a inside crate. I would think since your trying to establish some pack leadership that anytime they are out of the kennels they need to be on a leash hooked to you and they still need to get some type of exercise when their out with you so they can release some energy - Hopefully someone with more experience than me will chime in - good luck!! it definitely can be a challenge with 3 dogs -I'm going thru it right now - but I'm committed to my dogs too so I'm doing what I have to do to keep them safe and happy.