I was bored this afternoon and Yote was being obnoxious so I decided to try the game "101 things to do with a box" We have a week of storms coming up so I thought some parlor tricks would be a good way to keep him occupied.

Generally up until now I have used Luring, but when I taught him to high five, I thought I used shaping.

I waited until he picked his foot up off the ground and clicking, then clicking for progressively higher movements then finally for making hand contact with me.
I did the same thing with spin, and it seemed to work.

But the box exercise did not work at all. I couldn't even get him to look at the box he was too focused on me.

I could sense his frustration so I started tossing the treats into the box and clicking when he looked towards it to get the treat. He never did make any connection at all with the box being the point of what we were doing.

My ultimate goal was to get him to sit in the box.

Is it generally more difficult to shape behaviors that involve other objects and are not something they would ever do normally?

Did I do this totally wrong?

Shaping takes a LOT of patience, especially when a dog isn't used to it at all.

The good news is you have great focus with your dog .

Did you stare at the box, or did you look at your dog? Try staring at the box. You can even nudge it with your toe or something, to get your dog to look at it, and click/treat for him even looking at it.

Also, I don't know how you started this out in the beginning, but you might want to try placing the box down in front of you, with your dog already present, then pausing and waiting to see what your dog does. Soon as he looks at the box, click/treat.

keep trying!

leih

I set the box down before we started, tonight I will get the clicker and treats out, get his attention and then set the box down to see if that helps.

The problem is that he is just so focused on me he doesn't think to interact with anything in the room. While we were trying this earlier he was giving me his whole routine of behaviors trying to get the click...which while frustrating for him means he is getting the idea overall.

If you've never asked him to interact with anything else in the room, he won't automatically think to, and may get caught up in a 'look'. I taught the box trick using luring. I held a treat over the box and marked when a foot went in. I then expected two, three, and all four. I guess I started with luring, then he kinda caught on.

Have you tried fluttering your hands inside the box, or getting excited about the box? I will talk to myself 'hmm I wonder what's inside here. Ooooooo wow' and the moment they look at it mark. When I want focus on an object, I pay NO attention to the dog, just the object until he goes after it.

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could sense his frustration so I started tossing the treats into the box and clicking when he looked towards it to get the treat. He never did make any connection at all with the box being the point of what we were doing.

I had to figure out that sniffing is NOT going near the object, it's just looking for more treats. Kota does this a LOT and it wasn't until Cindy pointed it out in the clicker video that I realized it. Also, when it gets frustrating go back to something easy that he knows and end the sessions with that so he doesn't get frustrated with the whole thing.

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Is it generally more difficult to shape behaviors that involve other objects and are not something they would ever do normally?

It is more work on your part with shaping behaviors because your timing needs to be SPOT ON and you need to break it down into parts sometimes rather than treating a behavior you made the dog do. I think shaping is MUCH harder than luring.

Shaping is much harder than luring, But I also think that shaping has the potential to be able to teach them the really complicated stuff.

I also want him in the thinking mode, I need to work his brain to keep him worn out!!!

Let us know what ultimately worked for you...or pm me. Hambone is very focused on me and I guess not used to thinking for himself...Ed is right...I either used compulsion or in some cases bribing or luring to get him to learn and now, I have a "pup" who wants to please but just doesn't know how.

I have the Marker DVD and watched it at least twice and each time picked up something new, but he still isn't getting it...sigh...because of ME! Once I get it he will.

And a bored Husky is NOT a good thing.

Edited by Jo Harker (02/09/2009 04:59 AM)
Edit reason: added why he isn't getting it.

We never did try the box again last night, I was too tired.

But it is stormy here today and he is already grumpy about not going for a walk so I will try it again later on and let you know how it goes

 Quote: leih merigian

Shaping takes a LOT of patience, especially when a dog isn't used to it at all.

This is so true! I just started some shaping exercises with Oscar and BOY is it tough - I've done so much with him using luring that he just keeps waiting for me to "show" him what to do... I get an awful lot of staring at me in the face. But there were a few glimmers of hope, and when it's working, it's pretty cool.

In looking for new tricks to teach I came across this neat little blog by a woman in Norway who's a professional dog trainer and lover of the clicker - she has lots of pics and videos on the site, and I particularly liked the clip of her working with her english setter, Pi, on random shaping tricks. Granted, this dog grew up being "shaped", so it's used to just throwing stuff out there, but I was just loving how quick she is, and how fast she moved from gesture to gesture to get the click - no frustration, she just keeps trying things out...

Video in question is titled "trick training" and is at the bottom of the page under the "Happy Birthday!" post headline (it starts a little random, but gets good about a 1/4 of the way in): Fanny's Clicker Dog Blog

There's also a photo, and a TINY bit of video, of Fanny getting Pi to stand with all 4 feet in a dog bowl - reminds me of a circus elephant balancing on those tiny little stools!

~Natalya

That is a great link!!

I am determined to figure this out, I tried the box again and got a lot of face staring again. I think maybe I need something more interesting than a plain box to start teaching him to interact with stuff.
I also think part of the problem is I am always telling him OFF!! and LEAVE IT!! because he is the nosiest dog I have ever known and is into everything.

Of course the one time I want him to investigate something he totally ignores it.

The cat however was happy to sit in the box

Oh I just thought I would update my progress on clicking for calm while I was on the subject of clicker training.

We are doing so much better with the pre-walking calmness, I put his walking leash on, he sits at the door, I open the door and step out onto the porch while holding the leash. He waits until released to come out the door and onto the porch.

He can hold this for a full 30 seconds now, which is so much better than me sitting on him to get the leash on and him trying to fly out the door the second I touched the knob.

I accomplished this using only the clicker and no corrections at all. Which made me very very happy.