hmmm fun topic

So Kota's been having diarrhea for the past two days and I'm dropping a fecal off at the vet's. This is not getting fixed by boiled chicken/rice or pumpkin, or yogurt. There is a little blood (bright red drops at the beginning) which I think is from straining/pushing.

I'm taking this to my "holistic" vet in-town (instead of my pro-raw vet outside of town (30 mins away)) and they're fairly busy.

Now onto my question: Kota let this one go at around 2 am, and I just picked it up around 9 am. Will it be an okay sample since it has been sitting out for a while and it will probably sit out at the vets for a while? I'm just wondering if they can get a good fecal out of something not-so fresh since his poo breaks up in about 3 days.

My vet asks that it be under 8 hours old, but you could call and ask.

Thanks Connie, I called and they didn't really have a timeframe....annoying yes. I'm going to see if he lets some more go for me today and bring that in.

 Quote: Jennifer Skeldon

I'm going to see if he lets some more go for me today and bring that in.

A good, long walk usually does the trick for my dog.

Don't forget the baggie.:smile:

Michael you'd think a long walk would poop him out but to no avail. We even went to the dog park which is a surefire way to get everything out that could possibly mask other scents....nope. Grr I guess it is a good thing that he's not scooting, but I would like to see some poo

 Quote: jennifer skeldon

.....but I would like to see some poo

My Grandma use to tell me, "A watched pot never boils."
:wink:

I'm going to bump this and ask more questions.

Things have been fine, no blood, no diarrhea for two weeks, I decided he ate too much fat, that was the problem two weeks ago, it just took a while to clear up. Earlier today Kota made one perfect poop. We went to play this afternoon, and let out some diarhea with a few spots of blood. I decided he did need a fecal after all. I just got the return call.

They did a float and a smear.
Lots of fat in his poop.
Lots of bacteria in his poop. (round and oval) Forgot the technical terms but CANNOT tell me what the bacteria is, don't have the technology. GRRR waste of my money.
They want to put him on ammoxocillin. They say yogurt/kiefr will not help him.

They do not support raw, and made it very clear even after I said "I cannot think of a kibble that can provide my dog with the level of nutrition I can provide preparing my own diet, let's leave it at that". I did just drop it off at this vet thinking they can tell me if it's parasites or not.


Questions:
do raw fed dogs have an excess of bacteria naturally?
Should he be excreting lots of fat?
Should I schedule an appt at the raw-friendly vet 1 hr away?

Hi Jennifer,

I know that too much fat can give a dog diarrhea, but it subsides when you build them up to it over time, kind of like the organ meat. Although every dogs tolerance is individual to the dog and can differ.

If it were me and the vet couldn't tell me what the bacteria or parasite was, I would find another vet.
I simply can't imagine having them tell you that they don't have the technology. It begs the question, how are they able to treat the dog effectively, if they don't know what they are actually dealing with?

I have a feeling that they are using a broad brush with their treatment, and suspect that they use ammoxocillian far too often
as their treatment for all the cases that comes in. Also to just rip you off!

I can tell you that I had very similar diarrhea in my dog, and the first fecal was negative and the diarrhea persisted and we did another more specific fecal and it turned out she had
Giardia( parasite) so it pays to have the correct tests done to know how to treat the different health issues.

I believe that a healthy dog has the natural ability to keep all the bacteria in check so it is not an issue.
Also the short digestive tract is perfect for the raw food because it doesn't stay in the gut long enough to create trouble.

If I were you, I would find a new vet that is at least OK with feeding raw. That way it will eliminate any future conflicts about the pros and cons of raw feeding. Which btw, the benefits far outway the problems.

If you need to keep this vet, then they should be willing to send the fecal to an outside lab so you can know what is going on ie what the bacteria really is etc.
If they can not accommodate you then they are not worthy of your hard earned money!
Good Luck!

QUOTE: Forgot the technical terms

Can you call back and get "the technical term"?

You will want their exact findings for the new vet. This vet "report" is staggering, IMHO. You must have felt like screaming at "we don't have the technology" to identify a bacteria.

Also, please ask for the numbers on the fat. How much fat per whatever.

Yogurt/kefir are not antibiotics, I'm sure you know, so I don't know why the topic would have come up except as probiotic support during an antibiotic protocol.

Fecal fat does not necessarily relate gram-for-gram to dietary fat. That is, there is fat in the feces even on a fat-free diet. However, of several types of diets in a UC Berkeley experiment about the relationship between fecal fat and ingested fat, the meat diet did indeed produce the greatest amount of fecal fat.

This is why it would be interesting to get that number rather than "lots of."

Yes, I would make a raw-friendly vet appointment, no question.

All JMO.

 Quote:

I have a feeling that they are using a broad brush with their treatment, and suspect that they use ammoxocillian far too often
as their treatment for all the cases that comes in. Also to just rip you off!

Yep, the "We have ammx in the waiting room if you would like to pick it up tonight" screamed that to me. I was also told that the fecal was "a comprehensive look at anything that might be wrong with what's comming out" ....not true

So the technical term is for round and oval bacteria (coxi and bacillus I belive after looking them up). They have no idea what the bacteria are, just the shape. And I was very polite, and told them I would call back tomorrow. No screaming of their incompetence ...maybe I should have. I asked for an email or fax of the findings and she read me the findings, no per amounts, etc. I think I will go back tomorrow and get my money back and go to the raw-friendly vet.

 Quote:

Fecal fat does not necessarily relate gram-for-gram to dietary fat. That is, there is fat in the feces even on a fat-free diet. However, of several types of diets in a UC Berkeley experiment about the relationship between fecal fat and ingested fat, the meat diet did indeed produce the greatest amount of fecal fat.

I was thinking that they probably see dogs who are fed purina/pedigree/sci diet type food. Of course a dog who eats actual fat is going to have more fat in their poop. Do you have a copy of this article, this seems interesting?

yogurt question was about keeping good bacteria while on antibiotics... they say no yogurt will not help keep bacteria while you are using an antibiotic. This strikes me as wrong.... as my gyno has told me otherwise