My Neighbor has a 3yo Pure Bred Male German Shepherd. He's a beautiful dog and is not aggressive but he is poorly trained and is hard for my neighbor to control. When the wife, who we usually see with the dog and is maybe 5 feet tall, has the dog on leash with her, he pulls her and has knocked her over. We see this dog at the bus stop with the wife and on one or two occasions I've had to help her control the dog by taking the leash for her or grabbing his collar. I'm a 45 yo male, 6ft and about 200lbs. Normally when she has him on leash and he is behaving I give him a lot of attention, patting him and speaking to him in a positive way like I would my own dog, giving him "good boy" praise and trying to engage his attention and get him to focus a bit. He has never shown any overt aggressive behavior but he is also not necessarily a submissive dog.

The other day I was at the neighbors front door picking up my daughter from a play date and the dog was barking at me from inside. I think my neighbor (again, the wife) had him by the collar. When the door opened The dog tried to bolt out and I blocked him with my leg and had my hands near his face and went for his collar. It was a little chaotic. The dog did not bite me, but he seemed to "mouth" my hand. He basically put his mouth around my hand but did not bite down or growl. He did this twice as he was trying to get past me to get outside so it was definitely a deliberate behavior.

I mentioned it to my neighbor and it worried her. I'm not familiar with this behavior and am not sure whether it was submissive (he didn't bite me) or aggressive or maybe pre-aggressive as in maybe he might be working his way up to biting some one.

I've had many dogs in the past and I have a tendancy to interact even with dogs that I dont know and always establish a natural pack dominant position with dogs, especially intelligent ones which this dog is.

I realize that although I have a natural affinity for this dog (I love big German Shepherds) he doesn't really know me from a hole in the wall and has no reason to accept me as dominant. Considering that he's not my dog, do you think I stepped to far into his personal space and that this was a warning to me?

Maybe, considering the situation, do you think this was a natural and appropriate behavior to warn off a stranger?

If you feel that it is an aggressive behavior can you suggest some ways that the owners can correct it. This is a truly beautiful and intelligent dog. I feel the owners haven't put in the needed training for him and I'd hate to see him bite someone, or See him destroyed because he bit some one. It would be a shame either way to see someone get hurt or see the dog suffer for what amounts to lack of training by his owners.

Thanks

Really quick; two things I noted....

1) I do think it was a warning; you were there. If it felt like a warning, it probably was. Dogs have absolute control over their mouths-how hard they bite down, etc.

2) Her holding him by the collar is essentially the same thing as cocking a gun. She is creating frustration at the very least, probably suspicion as well. Loose leash-total control; tight leash-no control.

Yeah I did feel like it was a warning. Good tip about the leash. Maybe she can keep him on a loose leash when she answers the door rather than holding him by the collar. I knew I'd get good insight on this forum. Thanks

A loose leash only works when the dog is under control. I would keep him on a prong collar in the house, and make him sitz or platz when guests come over. Correct him if he breaks the command, but fighting/restraining him is only adding to the problem.

I would urge that she join here and get recommendations for teaching door manners as well as outdoor walking behavior (and leadership on the owner's part). Also, I betcha that a light drag line on the dog most of the time while he is learning new behaviors will let the owner feel far less helpless and anxious around the door.

Just for starters, she might stand at the door, after saying (calmly) "Just a minute," and not open it until the dog has moved away from it and sits behind her, drag line on.

There are so many tiny steps that she can take almost instantly that will calm her own demeanor and, in turn, the dog's.

Right, so it all comes back to some good obediance training to start with.

Do you think that for me as basiclly a stranger to the dog, that I should back out of his space? As I said, I have a tendancy to be friendly to him when she has him out. Am I crossing his "family" boundry by doing that? I hadn't realized that he was three and so is more or less an adult Shepherd now. I thought he was two and tended to treat him in more of a puppy or young dog sort of way. Maybe that's not appropriate for an older more mature Shepherd that is a stranger to me.

Thanks, I will forward this thread to her and suggest that they can get some great info from this site.

Good luck Adrian.


Randy

Once again no one asked the right question. Your kid was there on a play date and you're ok with that? I mean you trust the dog enough for your kid to be around the dog right? You trust the owners to handle the dog around kids? A dog "mouthing" is a subjective thing without actually seeing it

Hi Al, I dont think the dog is mean or nasty. I've interacted with him a bunch of times and he does not seem overly aggressive or nasty in any way. He is big though and his owner does not seem to have control of him. I definetly get the feeling that the dog calls the shots in the house at least while the wife is around. I've never seem him interact with the husband. He's around strange kids when my neighboor brings him out and I've never seen him act in a threatening way but he's never calm on the leash. he's always pulling or trying to run off to investigate something.

As I said, I pet him and interact with him when he's on leash in the yard and he dosent show any signs of a problem. I was just interested to get your take on the situation as I presented it and was wondering what people thought.

If you have any questions, please ask away.

Thanks