Hello All,
The search is over. Eric and I have a new addition to the family and boy do I have a lot of questions and hopefully will get many helpful responses from you folks . We have a 2 lb, going on 7 weeks old Tuesday 2/17/09, female, half JRT and half Cavalier King Charles spaniel, named McKenzie aka "Kenzie". She was fed kibble from the breeder and I wasn't sure if it is too early to start feeding raw, so I've broken up her feedings with half kibble and half raw, such as yogurt and hamburger meat 3 times a day. So far she enjoys it. She is also pooping regularly, like 3 to 4 times a day. Is it too early to just give her straight raw at such a young age? We were thinking of grinding up chicken since her teeth aren't all in yet. Also, we took her to the vet yesterday and she's in good health, with the exception of loose knee caps. The vet said to wait and see how her bones will grow and won't know if her knees will be problematic until she is 7-9months. She has no worms. However, she seems to scoot a lot and I'm not sure why that is? She already had 1 combo vac shot of DHLLP given by the breeder and we decided not to do the rest of the series of combo vacs. Instead we are just going to give her distemper and Parvo vac in a few weeks(we do not want to over vaccinate her). Would those vac's be sufficient enough for her to be healthy? Looking forward to your replies as I'm a newby to the puppy raising and first time as an alpha to my little Kenzie. Thank you for reading.
Aloha,
Marisa

Hmmm...what did the breeder say about her knees? Someone intentionally bred a JRT and a CKCS? And then sent a 2lb puppy home at 6 weeks? LOVELY.

Anyway...I have a dog w/a luxating patella, and I was told by several vets not to bother fixing it. The surgery is harder on the joint than the laxity. Mine is now 9 and still no worse than he was at 1.

Regarding food; they're never too young to go straight raw. You need to make sure she gets bone, though. Hamburger meat is not balanced. For a small dog, I'd say the easiest thing to do is get Nature's Variety premade raw patties. Then it's a no-brainer to get the right balance, plus you don't have to grind; it's already done.

I am extreme when it comes to vaccines. Parvo is definitely a vaccine I would not give to any dog, ever. We didn't used to have stronger and stronger strains of Parvo like we do now...I believe this is a result of all the vaccines; the virus is simply becoming stronger and stronger. Recently, it's seemed like while both vaccinated and unvaccinated puppies get Parvo, the unvaccinated ones bounce back much faster. What's done is done, but I wouldn't vaccinate her again, period. Rabies if you can't avoid it, but wait as long as you can.

Sorry to sound so negative in my first paragraph. Congrats on your new puppy, Marisa.

Edited by Jenni Williams (02/14/2009 12:16 PM)
Edit reason: too bitchy

Hi Jenni,
I understand your concern with her age, Yah, I know, we thought 6 weeks was a bit early too. However, "technically" they are ok to go to new homes as early as 6 weeks(I checked into that too). I knew what I was getting into and researched both breeds and thought it was a good mix for our current pack at home. The breeder said when she took the pups to her vet, the vet said they were all healthy. The breeder was shocked when I told her that our vet mentioned the loose knee caps . Thank you for the info on the raw feeding and vac's that was helpful . What is your take on why she scoots?
Aloha,
Marisa

I forgot the scooting. Ordinarily, I would say anal glands...but in a 6 week old??? I dunno. I would check again for worms...life cycles can be tricky w/some parasites.

Most breeders of toy dogs wait WAAAAY later than 8 weeks b/c of the small size and very real risk of dehydration, low blood sugar, etc. 2lbs is a very tiny body to handle all that stress of a new home. I know w/my 2 Pekes, they were 4 mos and 7 mos. They had to fly, so it's a bit different...but 6 weeks is really young and really small for a toy breed. Oh well.

 Quote: marisa sacks

What is your take on why she scoots?

Her butt itches.

J/K!!! When I first got Turbo he scooted alot. I took him to the vet and told him what the problem was. The vet then got a real serious concerned look on his face and gave me an, "Ohhhh....You want to know why?" Of course I did. "His butt itches."

It wouldn't hurt to check her anal glands. They are gonna be at about 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock of her business.:smile: If you feel some little peanut sized bumps, or probably smaller on a pup that little, I would suspect anal glands.

As far as feeding, what raw is she getting now? I think grinding for her for a few weeks would be good. Of course, letting her gnaw on a chicken back or some other RMB won't hurt in between meals. It'll be good for a teething pup.

I tend to shy away from the premade stuff because of all the extracurricular things they like to add. Plus, you can do it yourself cheaper.

 Quote: leih merigian

This isn't necessarily true.

From my view, it is.

Aside from the extra stuff that I don't want, I have no idea how much of anything is in there. If you take it all apart, I'd bet there is alot of stuff I don't want.

Oma's gave a very vague meat/bone %. How much meat? How much bone?

Same with Bravo. I don't know how much of what is in there.

Then you've got the same dental benefits as canned or bagged food. None.

I would also want full control of vegetables, too.

You could go out and buy a $100 grinder and all the food and still come out cheaper.

Just not for me. If I can talk somebody into a cheaper, and IMO, better way then I'll try to help them do it themselves.

 Quote: Michael_Wise

 Quote: Marisa Sacks

What is your take on why she scoots?

Her butt itches.

Hah, lol, that was a good one!

Starting today, Eric helped me figure out a starter RAW diet plan. We do have a meat grinder and grounded up some chicken with the bone. We'll start with that and see how her poops look like. She does love it though. She ate it all up for b-fast and lunch today already. Thanks for your input!

Marisa

Michael...clarify what you meant by "dental benefits." I think you might be overlooking something.

Dental benefits of raw come from the eating of the meat and bone...not from just chewing it. Chewing RMBs is certainly beneficial, but it's not simply the physical chewing action that's cleaning the teeth. When they eat raw meat/bone, it forces their systems to produce enzymes that in turn end up in their saliva and keep their teeth clean.

Additionally, the simple lack of carbs and grains will help teeth dramatically. My little ones eat premade most of the time and their teeth are spotless. Same with my cats, who I have tried to get to chew bones, but they won't.

Beef Nature's Variety ingredients:
Beef, Beef Liver, Raw Ground Beef Bone, Beef Heart, Beef Kidney, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove.

I am not thrilled w/the flaxseed, but that's really the only issue I have w/this food. According to them, it's 5% veggies/eggs and %95 meat, bone, and organ, in that order.

For a larger dog, I agree w/you about doing it yourself...but for a teeny tiny dog, it is VERY difficult to make sure they're getting everything they need in those tiny portions. I have two 6lb dogs, and I just found that it is so much easier to do it this way as a staple and add to it (like little wing drumettes-Widget's favorite!). Otherwise, you're really killing yourself to measure accurately and divide things that small. W/the patties, I take one out, tear it in half, and give one to Widge and one to Matti. Breakfast is served.

Edited to add that you get a pretty good idea how much of everything is in it by tearing it up anyway. The bone is in pea-sized chunks for the most part, and from what I see, it's a pretty good ratio...both going in and coming out. I see no difference between their poop and the big dogs as far as bone. The veggies are harder to tell...once in a while you see a piece of what must be veggie...but it pretty much looks like hamburger w/chunks of bone.

Edited by Jenni Williams (02/16/2009 10:06 AM)
Edit reason: bone content

Hey Jenni.

I've seen alot of dogs with cleaner teeth than my raw red dog that only ate Ol' Roy. Some dogs just have better teeth regardless of what they eat.

I realize that raw feeding creates enzymes that help keep teeth clean, but the mechanical action of chewing the meat and bone does more, IMO. Feeding ground WILL NOT keep my dogs teeth clean.

If enzymes do most of the work, then how come so many raw fed dogs have dirty canines?

Turbo has a couple teeth that are too close together. This keeps those places in between from getting the mechanical action of chewing food. There are brown spots there. I would think that if enzymes did that much that those brown spots would be non-existent.

I haven't fed a teeny tiny dog, but can't see it being much harder. They don't have to get every food item (meat, bones, and organs) everyday. If you are trying to get everything in one meal then I bet it is difficult.

 Quote: Jenni Williams

Beef Nature's Variety ingredients:
Beef, Beef Liver, Raw Ground Beef Bone, Beef Heart, Beef Kidney........According to them, it's 5% veggies/eggs and %95 meat, bone, and organ, in that order.

Does that food have more liver than bone?