Hi all,
I am presently viewing the marker training DVD and although I am not ready to get started I wanted ask advice regarding some anticipated problems. I'll try to make this as short as possible.

I have a female 2-4 year old GSD rescue who I adopted 9 months ago. She has been abused (without a doubt) and harshly treated.

She has had some obedience and it is clear she received harsh corrections and unfair treatment.

She is timid and submissive with people although not aggressive at all. In addition she is a low energy and low drive dog. She has little if any (I guess it could be in there somewhere!) food, play, ball or prey drive. Due to her past she does not think on her own and she always waits for direction.

Since i've had her I have been doing motivational obedience training based on what I remember from a Leerburg video I purchased 15 years ago (loaned it and never got it back) - with praise and food in 1-2 minute sessions. I don't do it often because it seems to lower what tiny bit of energy or drive that she has, even though I am always very "up" and encouraging, always trying to make our training sessions a party.

Anyway, since the beginning I have used the "free" command to release her. She is afraid of doing something wrong so she tends to freeze and she is also very much a pleaser and at this point if I ask her to sit she will not move until I give her the "free" command. I see her lack of active thinking as a real challenge. She also tends to keep eye contact constantly, which I know is good, but she will continue until I let her know she can stop.

It seems in order to be successful in marker training the dog needs to think on its own. She doesn't think on her own and I'm sure it is due to her past. She is so afraid of doing something wrong.

Here are my questions: During the first session when I am showing her the relationship between the marker and her food reward how can encourage her to do anyhting on her own? She always waits for direction. Once I start using the marker "yes", what if she freezes and doesn't reach out to get her treat or make any movement? If I am teaching her the down position, I know that once she is in the down postion (through luring- no command) and I say "yes", she will stay there until I release her with the Free command.

How do I teach her that "yes" is her new release command? How can I encourage her to think on her own? I know I've been redundant here, but I am not sure I am articulating this correctly. Any advice will be helpful! As I watch the DVD I can see I have made a lot of mistakes and I just hope I can recover. Is there such a thing as dog that simply doesn't respond to marker training? Thank you so much in advance!
Char

Edited by Connie Sutherland (02/22/2009 06:07 PM)
Edit reason: made paragraphs

She doesn't need to think on her own yet. That will come.

I'd back way way up to the simplest of commands with markers -- I'd just basically start over. "Down" can be much later.

It will be fun and it's not a waste of time to start over because of it being such a huge confidence-builder.

I'd start with loading the marker and NO COMMANDS, and I would use the absolute best reward available, just totally excellent. I'd make it bits of real meat (cooked, for aroma) or bits of cold cuts or a cheese she loves, or small pieces of cooked bacon -- just really yumbo stuff. All you want is for her to associate the marker (whether it's a clicker or verbal marker) with the reward: the marker means "reward coming!"

e.t.a. It won't hurt to do this before supper rather than on a full stomach.

Thank you for such a fast reply. So for how long do I simply load the marker? 10 sessions, 20 sessions??? With a low drive dog how mnay sessions per day? Sorry, but I am just trying to establish some kind a plan and get all of this clarified in my mind. At this point I feel somewhat confused. I am still in the process of watching the DVD, so maybe those answers are in there.

She has low food drive, so she has been fasting since yesterday evening. I cooked some steak tonight in preparation for tomorrow. I may have to resort to bacon or cheese because she is fed a high quality raw diet, so the meat may not be such big thrill for her. I am hoping the fast along with cooking the meat to bring out the flavor will help. Thanks again.

Warm meat has much more aroma.

You will know that you have succeeded at loading your marker when the dog looks for the reward when you give the marker.

Then you might like to mark and reward for eye contact.

Or for anything at all.

You can take all the time you want, as long as you don't let either one of you get bored with a session. Short and sweet.

Everything you are asking is indeed answered in the DVD (including low food drive), but feel totally free to ask questions here.

One thing besides hungry and great rewards is a "mixed bag." Bits of sharp cheese, cooked meat, hot dogs, bacon ..... all exciting and interesting to a dog.

The deli things can all be found with low sodium and no chemicals, BTW.

Thanks! I finished watching the DVd, but am going to watch it again. When I am charging the mark can I touch Shelby to get her excited- pet and pat her in an excited manner along with verbal enthusiasm? It takes a lot to get this girl going! If I remember right it is also ok to run from her and call her name- correct?

Another question. I plan on keeping Shelby in her crate for at least an hour before I do the training. How long should she be out of her crate before the training starts? I was told by a behaviorist that I should ignore her for at least 5 minutes after she comes out of the crate, but that seems to be when she has the most enthusiasm.

Thanks again.
Char

Charlene;
Just wanted to metion that it is REALLY IMPORTANT for you to do NOTHING, you are going to be extremely patient, especially for this type of dog. Remember, we don't know exactly what her history is, and her personality demands that you teach her to become active, rather than reactive. That means you do absolutely nothing and click for anything. Remember, small increments, sometimes just a blink can get the ball rolling. If you cause the dog to do anything,,,,,,,,,you defeat the purpose of opening the dog's mind to learning. This type of personality
needs confidence. Marker training builds confidence, but you have to remember to go really slow. This is a very hard step for people. We are direct line thinkers, which drive animals nuts......Let the dog decide when to move on. Her drive will come up with confidence.
Today we waited 15 minutes for a dog to "get it" and do something on his own. Very long time in humansville. Thank goodness animals don't wear watches!
Happy Training,
Roni