Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place for this, please tow/move if it's not.

My wife and I have recently discovered a few of Frawley's videos and I have to say, for all of the trash talk he gets my 13 year old dog has never responded to training better. He was my first dog and he's been the dog that listens reluctantly, because he knew he'd get a hard correction if he didn't...on a freaking choke chain, no less (I literally threw that away right after reading the e-book, by the way). Many mistakes were made, only I am to blame. Now he just gets a level 3 pop on a flat collar at most, but usually a verbal correction works fine. The method for stand is ingenious. My wife and I made it a negative experience by having to hold him in place with our hands, because he was a lot like Dama (sp?) in the videos (as is our current pup). It's been raining a lot here in Northern Cali so we've been using this technique and it's like the light just now went off in his head, "oooooh, that's what you wanted me to do all this time?" We've decided that he's probably a 4 in temperment and his pack drive is a social climber, which has led to me mistakenly taking the drive out of him instead of working it properly. Now, our main goal of training is having fun and finding some of that old man, second childhood, joy in being obedient. I actually kicked myself for a few weeks about what a bad job I did with him, when I thought he was trained so well. I thought, "well, he walks next to me even if I'm not holding the leash and he comes to me when I call him". You know, forget the fact that he mopes while walking and lolligags with his recall. That was just him being stubborn! No, it was me being a bad leader. Nothing to do but move forward and enjoy our remaining time together. And we seem to be doing much better now, thanks to this "evil", "liar" named Ed Frawley. Love your haters, for they are your biggest fans. As you can see, I didn't buy the internet hype.

Our current pup is approximately 17 weeks old, judging by tooth loss, and showed up on our doorstep five weeks ago, like he lived here. We're pretty positive that he's GSD and "English" Pointer. Super high drive dog. We've nicknamed him "idiot" because we love Frawlely's usage and he does fit it. He's months ahead of where our old man was when he was a pup, as far as training. He's gone from trying to crush his own windpipe (quite literally, I'm afraid) on our first few walks to actually walking with a pretty loose leash, most of the time. That did take him self correcting with a prong collar, though. We've made it a habit for every walk off of the property and I use the flat collar on the property while training the "slow" command. (Wrong or alright?) Our property isn't fit for walking on at the moment so we have no choice but to walk around the neighborhood next door. Beyond that, we do break the "one trainer" rule but my wife and I try to do everything the same way so he doesn't get conflicting signals. We're using a mixture of treat and toy for reward and he's coming along nicely with sit, down, come, crate, waiting at doors, and "no cat". He's just now moving into the correct phase for these. We're thinking that we're going to eventually use him for agility and maybe hunting so I can feed the dogs and cats fresh food without spending more than we already do on Natural Balance (dogs) and Blue Spa Select (cats). He's also going to make a good watch dog because he barks when people come over, which means he'll replace the old man as our watch dog. We'd like to breed ADRK rotties in the future for our guard dogs and because we love the breed. Though, it's really hard to argue with how quick this guy picks things up compared to a rottie. My old vet used to jokingly say "ah, the first thing you gotta do with one of them dogs in the morning is hit 'em in the head with a 2x4 to make 'em listen". He trained and bred working boarder collies for 40 something years, so he wasn't the average "buy my stuff" vet.

I guess I've rambled enough. Thanks for reading/listening. I'm looking forward to learning a lot from this forum and being able to buy some videos of my own, instead of borrowing my friend's.

Thanks for your time,

Scott

Welcome! Sounds like you're doing great....and I LOVE the ears on your pup! Wow!

I would urge you not to waste any time on getting this one:
http://leerburg.com/219.htm

It will completely change your training forever, even more than you have already done. You'll never look back.

 Quote: jennifer mullen

Welcome! Sounds like you're doing great....and I LOVE the ears on your pup! Wow!

Thank you. Yeah, his ears are amazing. They've been like that since he showed up and don't show any signs of flopping.

 Quote: connie sutherland

I would urge you not to waste any time on getting this one:
http://leerburg.com/219.htm

It will completely change your training forever, even more than you have already done. You'll never look back.

I've got the e-book, but I'll put that on the list and put a more honest effort into markers. I use "hi, buddy!" with the old man and he knows that it's time for some lovin' but I haven't done it much with the pup or used treats. Perhaps I need a 2x4 of my own?

I'm really looking forward to the Building Drive video.

Welcome. I love the ears on your pup too, but I am very impressed with your working with your 13 yo. I have an 11 yo (March 7 he will be 11 yo) and he has improved so much with the help of DVDs and this forum. I am not where I want to be with him, but I will ask only what he is able to give and count myself lucky and blessed he will have a better life.

Both of your dogs are gorgeous! Good luck with the old one and make sure you enjoy him and work with him as much as the young one. It is easy to push aside one for the other, but my guess is you are doing it right and making sure the old one gets the first attention, first food, etc. You are going to have so much fun with Ed and Cindy's style of training with markers!

Welcome Scott. Love your dogs. The old man with the hint of gray on his nose and the youngster that hasn't grown into his ears yet. I am sure you enjoy them both.

Your rottie looks not a day over 5. And are you sure the pup's nickname isn't "rabbit"? I can't wait for more pictures... hint hint.

Anyway you have come from the same place many of us have come from (the what was I thinking camp). You will LOVE the marker video Connie linked you to. Especially Ed getting marker trained! hahahahHA!

Welcome Scott! Your dogs look like two wonderful but very different personalities - they're lucky to have such an educated handler, even if you feel like you came upon the best methods late in the game. Are you sure someone's not holding up the ears of that young pup?? They defy gravity in a most unusual way.

 Quote: Angela Burrell

Anyway you have come from the same place many of us have come from (the what was I thinking camp).

I'll gladly put myself in that camp too! Have a great time with your continued learning and training.

~Natalya

Thanks, guys. My wife and I feel like proud parents right now. I forgot to mention that Rasta's (old man) stays in the 72-75lbs. range and Duke has grown from 20lbs. to 34lbs. He just lost another molar, too.

Jo, thank you very much. I do make sure Rasta gets everything first. I even give him attention before I take Duke out of his crate to go potty. I'm also making sure that they don't have any interaction. What kind of dog is that?

Sandra, funny you should say that because it's the same thing our vet said the first time he saw Rasta when he was 8. He still acts like a young dog too, except for his old bones getting tired on him a lot sooner. We've had him since he was six weeks old (his b-day is Jan. 03) and I still enjoy him every day. Duke pretty darned enjoyable himself. He's so eager to please and picks things up really quickly. When we let him have free time outside he romps through the tall grass, he'll drop his front half down into the play/herding position, grab a mouthful of grass, and then take off while throwing the grass up into the air. He does the same thing inside, to a far less rambunctious degree, with a small canvas bone. Which is why we call him "idiot". You have some great looking dogs, too.


Angela, we originally though he might be a dingo/jack rabbit mix. But that'd be silly because there aren't any dingos in California. (yeah, that's why it'd be silly! ) I caught that subtle hint, too.

Natalya, thank you very much. I do what I can to educate myself about anything I do. I'm a really big advocate of life-long learning and self education where applicable. His ears...are just amazing. They're about 6" tall. It's like he got the ear size from the Pointer and the set of an adult GSD. It's really cute when he folds them back. Is that a Ridgeback in your signature?

Some more pics...

Rasta:

He loves his toys...


But he really hates water...and always has.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/pets/rasta047.jpg

We really thought he'd like camping. This was two years ago. It was our first camping trip together, in the California redwoods near Fort Bragg, right before we got married (after 12 years together). He was like, "ok, so we stopped on the side of the road and this is what we're doing? Why?" Poor guy.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/camping/FortBraggAug2007108.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/camping/FortBraggAug2007051.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/camping/FortBraggAug2007114.jpg

Duke:

I love how puppies lay while playing.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/pets/duke011.jpg

"No, really, there's something right here!" You can see his ghost blaze here.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/pets/duke024.jpg

Here's his blanket and you can just make out the Pointer-like spotting on his side.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/pets/duke032.jpg

Our eight month old brothers, for good measures.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/pets/kittens418.jpg

And rottie we had many years ago, that someone thought they needed more than we did (bastard thieves). He was about a year and 80lbs. here.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/pets/Beast.jpg

Edited by Connie Sutherland (03/04/2009 11:31 AM)
Edit reason: remove image tags

Hey Scott, can you turn those into links?
The rule is, two pics only. After that, you can post as many links to pictures as you want.

It keeps the forum running quickly and snag-free.

(Great pics, though!)