Hi everyone,
I have a couple with a lab that plays "keep away" and barks at strangers when outside the home. Training proceeding well, except when she's off-leash at a vacation home. (yes, I know, keep her onleash, use a drag line, don't let her out unattended...) It's progressed a bit too far and this neighbor has called animal control. I want to nail this behavior - end it, so would greatly appreciate any training ideas you have. I will use a prong collar, will do what I must - this is a dangerous game and this dog has her owners wrapped around her you-know-what. Many thanks!

My dog LOVES to play keep away. Unfortunately for him my wife and I don't. We use an e-collar when we have to, but really, just by refusing to play he eventually gives in and brings us the toy. We have made bringing back the toy a lot of fun and keep away absolutely no fun. Except for the eGGe. We could teach him to play soccer against us if we had the youth and energy for it.

Interestingly, he never plays keep away with the tug. As soon as he wins he brings it right back.

I'm a little confused by your post, I don't quite understand the situation. This is someone else's dog you are training? And she barks at strangers when they are at their vacation home? And that's where neighbors have called animal control?

By keep away, do you mean refusing to recall?

Certainly, you are right that a dog on a leash cannot refuse to come when called.

If you use the search function, we have literally thousands of threads covering the recall, with plenty of suggestions.

Until the recall is reliable, I would keep this dog not just on a drag line, but TETHERED to you.

A prong isn't necessarily needed, just consistancy.

Reliable recall and solid obedience are necessary. The owners are undoing any partial progress every time they take the dog into this situation.

Until the obedience is reliable and proofed under high level of distraction, they cannot permit the dog to be off leash.

What Rich and Alyssa said.

If you still find yourself in that situation, whatever you do, don't chase the dog. All you do is make it fun for the dog.

Instead, find another toy the dog loves and start playing with it, then walk the other way. Most puppies will chase you at that point.

Hi and thanks for your response. This is a dog I just started training for these folks. She's 3 years old now. They had sent her to "be trained" for a couple of weeks and the trainer never followed up, meaning they got this puppy back with no instruction. I have no idea what was done, except when I put a prong collar on her she got very quiet and tractable. When I put a long line on her to do some recall she howled and cowered (with a minimal pop of the line when I called "come"). After sending her owners inside (she kept trying to hide behind them, I resumed without popping the leash and you'd have thought I'd tortured her.
Anyway, it was the neighbor called animal control. The dog was running around - no fence - and decided she hated the neighbor (as do the owners - ironic). Now she barks at the neighbor and the owners have no clue as to what to do. I have to work with them more, but for now I have instructed them she is not to be off leash again, if so on a drag line, etc.
As for keep away, I don't think a toy or treat will work if the dog is wound up. Bottom line, if they cannot control the dog with absolute confidence, they have no control at all. That means a possible lawsuit. Definitely not worth it.
So, there we are - rock and a hard place. I'd like to put a big "come" on her, but I don't think the owners will carry it through with consistency. Right now they are practicing - with treats. I have my doubts that this will prove 100% reliable in a tense situation.
So, a this point I'm for not letting the dog out unsupervised.

Agreed with Rich and Alyssa.

The way I fixed my dog's 'husky moments' of coming within 10 feet then playing the 'are you gonna get me' game was with the hand touch.

He would get within 10 feet, start to play bow a little and I'd give him a touch command. He LOVES it, and it's a GREAT thing that I teach all of my fosters for that exact reason.

The hand touch is NO excuse for the dog to be off leash without a MOSTLY reliable recall. If the problem is mostly at the vaca house, don't bring her or like Alyssa said, tethered to humans at ALL times.

Do a search of the site, there are videos of the touch and recall games.

Hillary, first of all, I love the pics on your website!

Here are a couple of more suggestions:
Install an invisible fence at the vacation property and have the dog wear the fence collar at all times. This, at least, would prevent the dog from wandering off-property.

This dog sounds very soft, from what you describe. Avoid correction or 'pops' for the recall, and instead focus on positive methods.

The best advice I have received here is to make the recall a very positive experience for the dog.

Recall for dinner, recall for a ride in the car, recall for a special treat, recall to play with a toy, etc. (by the way, have them pick a new recall word that has no negative associations with it)
Don't recall to: end a game, give the dog a bath, or to reprimand.

The golden rule is to never use the recall if it can't be enforced (like, with a long line). If the dog ignores the recall, walk over, grab the recall line and guide the dog back to where you originally called him from. No reward, but no punishment either.

Good luck! And welcome to the board...

I'm not sure if I agree with the invisible fence suggestion.

A dog that is very sensitive to having it's neck pulled and thinks it's being punished with a simple pop could go neurotic when it suddently gets shocked out of nowhere as it's walking along minding its own business.

I'd say leash training first and formost, with marker training. The hand touch was a great suggestion. I've also been taught that as part of the recall you grab the dog's collar in your hand, and he only gets his treat when your hand is on his collar.

So for example, you call the dog, he comes, you take hold of his collar, then praise and treat.

You could teach this using backchaining - so first he gets a treat when your hand is on his collar, then for standing in front of you letting you put your hand on her collar, then for approaching and letting you take the collar. (etc).

Good luck!

 Quote: Angela Burrell

A dog that is very sensitive to having it's neck pulled and thinks it's being punished with a simple pop could go neurotic when it suddently gets shocked out of nowhere as it's walking along minding its own business.

That's why the dog is trained to respect the boundaries...

Here's a good link explaining the training process for using e-fences...
Electric Fence Training