We've just introduced an approx. 8 mos. old male Golden/chow? mix breed with our VERY LARGE 4yo male GSD. The GSD has always been dominant, but I'm not sure I'd describe him as actively aggressive. He's capable of playing with other dogs as long as they don't try for dominant. If they show aggression my GSD will respond in kind. I'm sure most of you are familiar with this type of dog. He comes with a lot of rules for other dogs and humans who aren't family. He needs to approached correctly, handled correctly, etc.

Anyway... We brought home a friendly stray Golden-mix. No collar, dirty, and begging for food from people at a gas station on a highway. The vet says he's about 8mos. old, which seems about right. The GSD is pretty much fine with the new dog, but shows aggression when the puppy gets on top of him or tries to eat his food. Seems normal and we intervene to correct the behavior. On day two they started playing together and the action started to get pretty rough. Tails are wagging, but it's aggressive dog wrestling play and one of the dogs is woefully unequipped to compete.

The question: What rules should we enforce around play time? They seem to be enjoying the chase and wrestle-game, but the puppy quickly loses and due to the size difference the Golden could get hurt. Is it best just to keep their play to minimum? It seems that the puppy is usually the instigator.

Thanks for the advice.

I allowed (and allow) my puppy (husky/terrier) and my adult GSD female to wrestle and play rough, but I ALWAYS supervise it closely. Partly b/c of the size difference, b/c my female would react badly if pissed off (so to speak), and because she has high prey drive and enjoys attacking in other contexts (she is good with my dogs however, but I do feel it is only prudent to supervise).

Depending on how imbalanced the play is, I would consider minimizing it. My female was actually pretty gentle while wrestling in that she was obviously aware of the size difference. But you don't want one dog to get picked on or injured.

One question - are you intervening to correct the behaviour of your GSD when the puppy is being rude (jumping on him, eating his food) or the puppy's behaviour? I would be supervising them so the puppy doesn't get the chance to act rudely to your GSD, but I would also keep in mind that it may not really be fair to your GSD to correct him if he's been the one behaved rudely to and is reacting to that (as long as, as another board member here said, his reaction is appropriate). I've mis-corrected my dogs in such a situation so I know it can be hard, but just something to think about.

I wouldn't allow play time right now. I have a territorial dog and I brought home a new female 3 weeks ago. I made sure they were kept separate. He could smell her as he went by her crate. He could smell her all over the yard because I walked her around so her scent AND my scent were in his territory. Only when he quit bristling did I even begin to introduce them safely. I don't allow them to play. He is twice her size and a bully even now.

These helped me:
http://leerburg.com/pdf/introducingdogs.pdf

http://leerburg.com/pdf/packstructure.pdf

The pup will be the instigator because he is a pup and testing the waters. However, he is at the age where your older dog won't be very forgiving. You've already stated your older dog won't tolerate dominant gestures from other dogs. This puppy is demonstrating dominant play and things could get ugly.


At the least, if you want to let them play right now, keep a long line on both of them. That way you can immediately intervene.

(And, while we all want our pets to play together, sometimes that just can't happen.)

Jennifer is correct: If you correct the older one for what the younger is instigating, that is unfair leadership. It can be tricky to read who is starting the ruckus.)

Others on this board will give you better advice and more concise advice, but this my opinion.




Edited by Jo Harker (03/13/2009 11:40 AM)
Edit reason: Jennifer good post.

Jo, good point. I hadn't considered the length of time the new dog has been in the house. I didn't allow Neb and Teagan to wrestle or play roughly until they'd been together for months (I also adopted him when he was wee though, so it developed over time).

I'm not sure the GSD is being territorial. We've "dog sat" for a friend before (and right now as a matter of fact) and the GSD gets along well. It's a bit crazy in the house right now. GSD following golden following yorkie. The only aggressive dog in the house is the little yorkie.

The first time we dog sat for the yorkie our GSD was a little miffed, but he didn't exhibit any aggression, but he pee'd in the house. It's pretty much the same with the new dog (without the peeing so far). He'll bear teeth if the other dog climbs on top of him and snap/growl (looks scary, but it's controlled) when the pup goes for his food.

At this point we're correcting the GSD when he shows that type of aggression. We're trying to be the pack leader.

I'll post a pick of these 3 dogs. It's hilarious. Thanks...

I would stop correcting the GSD in those situation unless he's WAY over the top. It's not fair that the puppy gets to act like an ass without intervention from you, so when your GSD then corrects him b/c you didn't, he then gets in trouble. It's lose-lose for your GSD.
(and like I said, don't take as that I haven't made the same mistake, b/c I have - I will try to find the thread about it)

I'm not sure it's a matter being territorial even so much as it is just letting the dogs get to know each other better and learn to live together, vs. simply playing together.

here we are:
http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/225258/page/1#Post225258

My apologies for reading territorial when you meant aggressive with dogs who try for dominance.

If your dog is aggressive with others "He's capable of playing with other dogs as long as they don't try for dominant. If they show aggression my GSD will respond in kind." , then I don't understand how the pup and the GSD eat in the same vicinity that would allow the pup to challenge the older dog for food. The older dog, in his mind, is within his rights to protect his food source. NO dog should be allowed to eat from anothers bowl. That is asking for trouble. And, from experience, correcting the offending dog will only teach him to be silent until he strikes.

Instead of correcting the older dog, why not put the pup's food away from the older dog--behind a gate or even in another room with the door closed? That way, each eats his own food and no one needs to get corrected. That is being a pack leader.

I can see why you want them to play and are working to stop the aggression and "punishing". But, if the pup begins it and is being disrespectful, disciplining the older dog isn't teaching the pup proper behavior. HE shouldn't be allowed to "mount" the older dog.

I keep lines on my dogs so neither one gets frustrated. If Hambone gets to being a "bully" as in cutting Lucy off from forward motion or pulling a paw on her shoulder to push her down, he gets a pop and put up. If Miss Lucy gets it into her head that she is the favored one and gets snippy, she gets removed. (I don't pop her right now as she has a lot of issues and is very new to our family). Hambone is doing very well, but I do insist the dog who is misbehaving is disciplined, not necessarily the older one or smaller one. Does that make sense?

Oh! And I would love to see pictures!

added: They don't play together yet, just hang around the house in the same vicinity and walk outside together because I want Lucy to listen to me and learn to trust me and my judgement. I also don't want two misbehaving dogs ganging up on me.

Edited by Jo Harker (03/13/2009 07:11 PM)
Edit reason: added info

Oh, and yes, because of the size difference and age difference, it would be wise to limit their play to friendly and not boisterous. The big one can hurt the little one, even unintentionally until the rules get sorted out. (Been there too...sigh).