I have a 10 week old Presa Canario pup. I have read on this board that some question the presa's ability to do protection work, but I have a couple of questions about basic OB.

His mouthiness is getting much better. MUCH better, but it is still pretty bad. He only responds more enthusiastically if you pop him on the snout or anything around his muzzle, but he has been responding to a sharp "ehhh, ehhh!" I have been working on his mouthiness for several weeks--how long does this normally take? Also, he is mouthing on me much less, but the same is not true for other people. When he bites other people, should I correct him or should they? Many of these people do not deliver a proper correction--then they try to hold his mouth shut or something stupid like that.

Also, he LOVES to tug, but just not on his toys. When he gets a hold of your sleeve or pants leg, he loves it, but he does not like the rope tug or plush toys that I got for him. any suggestions? I try to be very active and enthusiastic when tugging with his toys, but he just does not like them as much as my sleeve.

I have had him temp tested by a Sch trainer around here. she was "floored" and said that he was "a fantastic candidate for protection training." I want to get another couple of opinions because it is hard to seperate the fact that she is also trying to sell me her training services. does anyone have a recommendation about where I can get him tested by an unbiased trainer?

I also do not think I want to train in Sch per se. Because he is not a shephard, I am leaning towards K9PS. It is my understanding that Sch relies very heavily on prey drive--presas are not known for tremendous prey drive and are typically functioning in fight drive during protection.

Thanks for all the help!
Joseph

Although you're right about SchH being a better sport for higher prey-drive dogs, don't pin your hopes too highly with the protection-based sports being the savior for lower prey-drive dogs.
Mals totally dominate the upper ranks of all the protection-based sports ( as would GSD's, if any of the handlers cared to use them instead ). That's just the truth of the matter, for better or worse.

WILL R. wrote:

 Quote:

Mals totally dominate the upper ranks

Just another for the record, LMAO

PS:Just gotta give everyone something to smile about it's Friday!! This is how the media does it right? LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am not really interested in protection training for the sport of it. I dont plan to compete. I want a dog that can/will actually protect me, my wife, and my kids (when I have some) from an actual threat. Sch is, in my humble opinion, too much of a show.

Mals may dominate the sports and the upper ranks, but I have seen several and I question their ability to protect in a real situation. They are, for the most part, too small. I do not see that they could engage a 200+ lb. man wielding a bat, club, or even gun and prevail. Now, I know that only a few select individual dogs will continue to bring the fight after being shot, but I would expect my protection trained dog not to be phased by a bat or club.

I am no trainer, but I question the need for extreme prey drive in a protection dog--do they really need to chase the guy if he is already running? I would prefer my dog to recognize the retreat and return to his "post."

Like I said, I do not know everything there is to know about dogs, but I do know that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I doubt seriously that one could not train a dog in protection utilizing fight/defense drive.

I am no trainer, but I question the need for extreme prey drive in a protection dog-- The reason you would want your dog to have Prey Drive, is so that you can teach him how to bite with no stress.
I doubt seriously that one could not train a dog in protection utilizing fight/defense drive. The reason it is NOT good to protection train a dog using strictly his Defensive Drive, is because it is not a comfortable Drive for the dog to be in when he is learning how to bite, it is stressful.

Joseph have you ever wonder why professions that rely on dogs for protection choose GSD and Mals. Police and military choose these breeds for the fact it can and will engage a large man. These breeds have proven themselves the most capable defender because of combination size and speed along with a strong bite.

If your pup has the right genetics and drives along with correct training it could make a wonderful protector. But, don't expect miracles if a large man with a bat makes good contact with your dog the fight will be over regardless of training. I've have talked to one trainer who breeds and trains presa's, he wants his males no bigger than 95 to 100lbs. I ask him why, his reply was simply those 130 to 150lb dogs don't have the drive,speed or stamina to do protection work. I've seen a couple of his dogs do car protection and personal attack and they impressed me. I certainly wouldn't want a dog that size of any breed to bite me.

Sorry, but if you're looking for a dog that will *actually* protect you and your family, you made a serious mistake getting a Presa Canario.

I could add the "that's just my opinions" statement, but the facts pretty much speak for themselves. You'll search for a long, long time to find an actual documented case of a Presa protecting it's owner ( outside of the massively exaggerated advertising, that is :rolleyes: ) in this country.

I see this breed get run off the field by determined decoy's more often than virtually any other breed, and that in it'self is a bad sign. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I agree with Will. I have tested a couple and find they lack nerves untill its time to meet another dog. Not a good protection dog. They have the look but thats all they have. Trained right and socilized right they make a good pet.

Dave

Wow, this is great! I did not expect to have this much response!

John, I see what you are saying about teaching the dog to bite. Do you really have to have amazing prey drive to teach the dog to bite, or will a normal level of prey drive suffice?

Many of the "working canines" serve VASTLY different roles than what I expect out of my dog.

I am not a police officer. I will not go searching for the bad guy. If he runs, good. I don't care where he is, as long as he is not near me. One of the biggest differences between shephards and molosser breeds is in regard to tracking. Molossers, for the most part, do not do well tracking for one reason or another. Similarly, I am not in the military. The dogs that work in this function are not personal protection dogs. Why would a soldier who is carrying an automatic rifle and a grenade need much protection from a dog? These dogs have many functions, probably the least of which is handler protection. This is the exact reason that GSD's and Mals are used so much in these venues.

Further than the purpose, Mals and GSD's are known to be less "attached" and easier to transfer handlers. Most molosser breeds that I know of will not tolerate handler changes as well as most other breeds. In the military and especially in police k9 departments, dogs are rotated between handlers on a regular basis.

Also, do not get me wrong, I do not expect my dog to fight through a bat or gun shot (if you shoot my dog, you will have bigger things to worry about than a dog bite).

Lastly, I do not prescribe to the idea that any one or two breeds are so much better at protection than another. Maybe we are seeing a little personal preference playing part in some responses here as well?

Do not get me wrong, I enjoy the conversations and I thrive on the challenge that my boy will be, at best, a good pet.

Keep the convo going!
Joseph

If you want some good information on Presa's, I would reccomend Red Star Kennels. (Can I do that in this forum??) They have probably the best Presa's in the States, and regularly compete with them. Personally, I would never get a Presa as a family protection dog....I have only seen a couple of them and they were not very stable...when one of them heard a loud noise he just ran frantically around barking at nothing. Anyway Red Star breeds and trains Presa's and GSD....the website is http://www.red-star-kennel.com