Like I said in another post. It's non emotional. My older dog is more sensitive. The use of the prong is coming from me. He feels I am angry at him. He takes a correction from the E collar much better because he feels it's not coming from me. I am not making any physical correction (as a pop with a prong). I can use the E collar much more than a prong. In fact I don't even use a prong on him anymore. In obedience I use a fur saver and Protection it's the E collar. He's much more sure of himself with E.

p.s. some dogs do get pissed with the E but those kind of dogs get pissed with prongs too

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Why wouldn't you want the dog to know the correction came from you? If you are issuing a command and it is ignored, don't you want the dog to realize why it is being corrected?
I think training has a lot to do with communication with the dog. Once you have established a bond with the dog, if you communicate properly, you can be an effective team, without shocks to get your point across. I don't like the idea of shocking my dog...I think it is a crutch that shouldn't be leaned on.

Let me repeat myself. He is SENSITIVE to the correction on the prong. In other words he looks like shit when that type of correction is used. He feels more comfortable with the E. It's non emotional for him. The bond that I have with this dog is unlike any other dog I have had. I have good obedience from him and he knows where he stands with me. A prong collar, choker chain, electric collar are all considered crutches. My dog requires NON in obedience. You are assuming I am shocking my dog on a level 7. It's barley a level three and yes I have tried it on myself. The shock that he gets is far less painful mentally and physically than the prong for my dog. This is not to say it works that way for every dog, but it does for my dog.You have to do what works for you and your canine partner. My last obedience score with this dog was a 96 and protection 100. I think we communicate just fine <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I assumed nothing about your shock levels...we obviously differ in our opinions regarding the e-collar, and that is fine.

The score is impressive, but may not mean much to a real life scenario. I just hope your dog can and will perform if necessary in a real life encounter. The bad guy isn't going to care if the score was 100 of 100. I don't think an e-collar will help if the shit hits the fan.

I am assuming that your dog is trained for real life. I apologize if I am wrong. There are glaring differences between sport and working dogs...but it appears they have become muddled into one group, which I believe can and has been costly.

What part of this e collar or prong collar discussion have anything to do with "real life"? That's a whole other topic. You asked why people use E collars. I responded and told you why I used it. Your emails indicate you do sport work with your dog or am I mistaken? You asked about communication I gave you an example of scores to show we communicate fine if we didn't the score wouldn't have been that good. That's not to say he will always have that. You're right we do differ on our opinions of E collars but like I said whatever works for you and your dog. You wanted opinions, you got it. This just happens to click for my dog. He is a sport dog but your welcome to try and come in my house. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

p.s. I don't think a prong collar will help either if shit hits the fan, that my friend is up to the dog and has NOTHING to do with collars

Thanks for the invite, I'll keep it in mind. However, if you are implying your dog may take me out...then good for him. If you do train in sport, I would imagine all I need is a ball and your dog would not be an issue.

The collar does matter, in how you use it and work your dog. Through a lead, I can communicate to the dog, and not just for correction. As the training progesses, no lead is necessary. I think the shock is cruel and unnecessary.

I personally have no desire to train my dog to hang on someone's arm and allow it to be hit with a stick, so to answer your question, I do not train for sport. The sporting world is ruining a lot of dogs.

You are correct, I asked for insight to the collar. You got nasty. I am not 2 years old, and do not need to be spoken to as such. I responded with my view and merely questioned its use. Where is the communication with your dog when using the e-collar? You yourself have stated you don't want your dog to know it came from you. What good is that bond if you aren't communicating?

Hi,
The e-collar takes the emotion out of the correction for the handler which in turn improves the relationship of dog and handler. The remote trainer (electronic collar) is a great communicator. The dog must however be taught how to control the stimulation thru his behavior. He has to be taught to associate the proper response to a command with the turning off or avoiding of the stimulation. Used properly it's a win win situation for the dog. It makes it easier for him to learn. It is the most versatile tool ever created for training a dog. And the technical improvements over the years have made it an appropriate tool for any dog, large or small, hard or soft. Whatever job you are training a dog to do, the e-collar can be adapted and utilized. It makes off leash reliability so much easier to attain! The timing of corrections can be so precise, that the dog learns much faster than with a leash, and at a distance. I too was skeptical at first. But after seeing several dogs working off an e-collar, I decided not to argue with success, and to learn more about it. My Sheltie loves his e-collar, and he's a soft, sensitive, willing dog. I've taught him to associate it with fun things like fetch and tug of war during his training. All I can say is "Don't knock it if you haven't tried it".

Most of the dogs I haveseen worked with an e-collar know exactly where the correction is comming from. Just watch them work. Any correction just modifies behavior, it comes down to personal preferance. I wouldn't use an e or prong collar unless I absolutly had to. In 20 years of training I have never used an e-collar and only once had to go to a prong. I don't need them to get my point across. I use a nylon slip and that is it. The thing that I have found is that it is easier to prevent the problems than correct them. The one dog I had to use the prong on was a hard Giant Schnauzer that came to us at2 yrs with no work ever being done with him. One we got his obedience down the prong came off and he was fine. I prefer to get the dog motvated to do the work rather than have him "fear" a correction. It works for me.

First I did not get nasty. I simply didn't think you understood my reason. I thought I needed to make it clearer <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Second you may try and come to my house in a "real" situation and throw a ball and see how far it gets you. No I am not implying he would "take" you out but he would defend me or his property and it has nothing to do with the collars I use for my sport training. It has to do witht he dog himself and that again is another topic. He knows the correction from the E collar is for not doing a correct behavior I have asked. Once again we communicate just fine. Remember I don't use ANY collars except a fur saver in obedience. In bite work the dog will not be on a leash and prong in sport trials or in real life so why not make some use of a correction that let's you hand free when the dog is 50 feet away. Your opinion of E collars is your own and if you do not wish to use it then that's your choice but I did offer my opinion and why I use it for my dog. You didn't seem to understand that reason so I repeated myself trying to make myself clearer in the explanation. You continue to train your way I will continue to train my way. Good luck to you and your dog.

p.s. What do you train your dog in? Are you a cop?

Stating that your dog will defend you or your house when you have stated you train in sport confuses me. I am going to be off the topic of e-collars, but if you train your dog in sport protection, are you sure he/she would defend in an actual confrontation? Has real stress been placed on the dog? What is the person holds a knife? Schutzhund teaches a dog to take blows from the weapon, hanging on the entire time. A knife or gun can end that rather quickly.

No, I am not a cop. I just enjoy working my dog, but do not see the sense of sport training. Too many people, such as yourself, see it as something to be used in life, be it home protection or as law enforcement. Will I ever have to deploy my dog? Probably not, and I hope I never do. But too much goes on in this world, you just never know.

You obviously enjoy the sport. Good. I hope you rack up the awards. Leave it on the field. Applying sport to life can be a fatal mistake.