To veg or not to veg in raw?
#233565 - 03/27/2009 01:45 PM |
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OK.
Think I will start a new one.
I raw feed, supplement with fish oil and vit e. Give plain yogurt 2-4 times per week.
I also give a variety of organ meats such as chicken liver, gizzards, and many times the backs have kidneys attached.
I have never been able to give green tripe as white is all I can find at the store.
I also sometimes give pigs feet for recreation.
Occasionally, a friend provides me with fresh deer, all parts.
However, I seldom feed vegetables unless it is something off my plate which is usually broccoli, asparagus, Brussels sprouts, peas, potatoes or green salad. She doesn't usually like green salad.
I do occasionally feed her apples or apple sauce to get her to eat the yogurt.
How much and/or how often should I give her vegetables.
She is a small dog, 10 lbs grown.
Thanks.
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Re: To veg or not to veg in raw?
[Re: Nora Ferrell ]
#233568 - 03/27/2009 01:49 PM |
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Green tripe will never be sold at the grocery store; as far as I know, it's illegal to sell for human consumption (not that I can imagine anyone wanting to eat it). White tripe has been cleaned and bleached I think.
Have you looked at local pet stores? That's where I get all my green tripe - either frozen raw tripe (usually lamb) or canned green tripe. Maybe take a look there.
I am not a heavy vegetative matter feeder, personally. I generally feed tripe only but once in a while the dogs will get some veggies, but it's pretty rare. I try to feed using a prey model, so what I give them in vegetables is basically what I would expect to see in the digestive tract of a rabbit, for instance. You could adjust for the size of your dog. Other people may do it differently though.
Teagan!
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Re: To veg or not to veg in raw?
[Re: Jennifer Mullen ]
#233572 - 03/27/2009 02:03 PM |
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Thanks, Jennifer. I will call around to the pet stores for green frozen or canned tripe. I live in a small town, but may be able to get it by mail.
How often do you feed tripe?
And, if I add vegs, is there a rule of thumb?
She does occasionally get some green vegs, but it is not a regular part of her diet, say on a weekly basis.
Is the reason that you don't usually feed vegetables because you usually feed green tripe?
How often do you feed the green tripe, as in, is it weekly, bi-weekly, etc.
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Re: To veg or not to veg in raw?
[Re: Jennifer Mullen ]
#233577 - 03/27/2009 02:13 PM |
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I give them in vegetables is basically what I would expect to see in the digestive tract of a rabbit,
I'm just looking into feeding raw - raising rabbits & chickens as part of the process. I've read that rabbits are prone to worms and the digestive tract shouldn't be fed... have you had any issues with this or is it a bunch of hooey? (is hooey really a word??)
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Re: To veg or not to veg in raw?
[Re: Jennifer Mullen ]
#233582 - 03/27/2009 02:18 PM |
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I vote YES on including veggies, unless your dogs are given the chance to eat a prey's digestive tract content on a very regular basis.
I don't know if you've ever watched a dog eat a whole freshly killed, completely unprocessed rabbit, but the volume of stomach & intestines + their contents is not negligible. The amount of vegetables close to their original state (in the stomach, as opposed to the more poop-resembling stuff in the guts) is probably about a couple of tablespoons in a medium-sized rabbit.
I keep that in mind when deciding how much vegetable matter to feed in relation to meat & bones. Not much, but it should still be included regularly enough.
I do what Connie suggests and either finely pulverize raw vegetables in a food processor or lightly cook them so the dogs can digest them better. (Pointless to give big chunks of raw carrot, it exits the dog looking just like it did when entering the dog ).
As for what kind to feed, the above-ground leafy vegetables are lower in starch and have less cellulose in general compared to root vegetables. Best not to overfeed the starchy stuff like potatoes. Some of what I feed: tender leafy greens (lettuce, parsley, dandelion leaves, celery leaves), celery, a bit of carrots (not too much, they're more on the starchy side), cooked acorn squash, bit of broccoli, bit of sweet potato or pumpkin (better), bok choi, cabbage and whatever else my rabbits find edible.
I usually puree it all and give them maybe 1-2 cups of it a week - sometimes less or not at all, sometimes more, I kinda wing it (My dogs are in the 60-100 lb range, so reduce the amount for tiny dogs).
Frozen berries are something I include as often as possible too. I don't feed any non-berry fruits though, as they're usually too sugary. I also include veggie scraps from my own meals, for extra variety.
Green tripe is ideal, but even with it I still prefer to add in the extras for more nutritional variety.
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Re: To veg or not to veg in raw?
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#233583 - 03/27/2009 02:18 PM |
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I meant the green matter in the digestive tract, not the worms
I buy mine and have never seen worms, don't know if that's helpful though. Ususally I'm feeding lamb, beef or venison tripe. I do feed rabbit occasionally, I just meant though that when I'm envisaging a prey item I think of rabbit (or chicken) b/c of the size. If that makes any sense....
Nora, I probably feed tripe bi-weekly, sometimes weekly. To be honest, it depends on whether I've remembered to pick some up and the size of the packages I've picked up, so how much I'm feeding at that point.
(Edit: My dogs looove berries too. I don't give them too many though but as a treat (and bananas) they're great. And I do let Neb forage for raspberries in the yard off of our bushes when they're in season. He can spend ages out there
What I try to do (and often forget, but I also have 2 rabbits and 2 guinea pigs that eat a lot of the extra greens) is if something is sort of starting to go and I'm thinking 'yech' (I'm picky), then I try to throw it all in a container in the fridge and then give it to the dogs. They like that better than fresh greens, which only Neb will eat (sometimes at that). Like I said though, they usually get tripe. The bunns and piggles get most of the extra greens)
Teagan!
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Re: To veg or not to veg in raw?
[Re: Yuko Blum ]
#233586 - 03/27/2009 02:24 PM |
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Here, take a look for yourself. The following was a medium-sized rabbit, probably around 1 lb or so. You can see where my dog takes out the stomach & intestines. Not that tiny
A real whole prey model diet would not ignore such a substantial part of prey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihG28RwiquM
(The stomach & gut eating part is about 1:15 into the video, as one of the helpful commenters pointed out, lol)
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz0vEUp1ySs
Edit: I bred, raised and killed that first rabbit myself. The second was bred by a rabbit breeder friend of mine. I'm currently raising all my dog-food rabbits on my own. I know wild rabbits tend to have tapeworms (hardly a big deal for a dog, worm him if it bothers you) but none of my hand-raised ones ever had worms.
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Re: To veg or not to veg in raw?
[Re: Yuko Blum ]
#233591 - 03/27/2009 02:29 PM |
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A real whole prey model diet would not ignore such a substantial part of prey.
I love watching dogs eat.
I should note, since I re-read and don't think I was all that clear, that I should've said 'not a heavy vegetable feeder' rather than vegetative matter. I think I tend to see tripe as gut rather than vegetables per se, though it's obviously my dog's main source of veggies, and I do definitely think that tripe is an important part of the dog's diet. But I don't feed it daily and I will often give a large amount rather than spreading it out over a smaller period.
Teagan!
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Re: To veg or not to veg in raw?
[Re: Jennifer Mullen ]
#233593 - 03/27/2009 02:34 PM |
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Thanks, Jennifer.
So, you probably try to get the vegs in there if you aren't feeding the tripe that week?
I haven't yet given mine a whole prey food item like a rabbit, yet. I still struggle with the yuck factor at times.
The fresh deer she has had was brought to me in pieces, including the heart, liver, etc. She LOVED it. I think because it was soooo fresh. And, the bones? WOW, did she ever love them.
Since she is so small, I oft times buy those small Cornish hens for her because the bones and everything are smaller. Plus I always thought some of the organ meat is still attached on the back. The backs and necks of regular chicken I get from the store usually have some organs still attached.
It has taken me almost a year of harping at the store to get them to stock just backs and wings and finally they do. The butcher told me a lot of people were starting to buy them for their dogs, too, so maybe this raw thing is catching on here in my small community. We have a big horse community and the same people that wouldn't dream of feeding meat to their horses will yet feed grain to their dogs. Go figure.
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Re: To veg or not to veg in raw?
[Re: Jennifer Mullen ]
#233594 - 03/27/2009 02:34 PM |
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But I don't feed it daily and I will often give a large amount rather than spreading it out over a smaller period.
Same here
As I said, I'm not one of those obsessive raw feeders who will stand there with a scale at every meal making sure everything is always in perfect balance. Sometimes they'll get veggies every few days, sometimes they'll go 2 weeks without but will get lots of tripe the following week etc.
Balance over time
However, the only time to be more concerned with balance would be with very young and growing puppies or with tiny dogs. In that case, I will try to work out balance over 2-3 days and not over 2-3 weeks like I do with my adult 70-100 lb dogs!
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