I don't know how to start this thread. I hope I can get some advice. I've trained Labs as duck dogs before and currently have a 5 month old Lab female I'm training. I recently acquired my first GSD, a 15 wk old female, and I have learned immediately that the GSD seems a little "softer" than the Lab. I have had the GSD for about 2 weeks now.

I started the Lab on basic obedience at about 10 weeks and she has progressed well.
The GSD is showing some trepidation. When we are walking in the front yard she does fine walking away from the house, but on the way back she runs to the porch like she is eager to go inside. My lab went through this phase at about the same age so I'm thinking it may be just that, a phase.

I'm training the GSD as a wildlife detector and tracking dog (I'm a Game Warden). Should I use strictly motivational training with her for a few months until she matures a little? I have noticed in other threads that some think too much compulsion might kill "hunt drive". How concerned should I be at this age to get a recall firmly implanted? Also can an introduction to tracking and even scent imprinting (doves, deer, ducks, etc.) begin along with obedience?

I appreciate any advice I can get from the members of this forum. I'm new to this type of training and am seeking information and guidance.

Chris

P.S. I know, the best idea would probably be to buy some of Ed's tapes, unfortunately I just don't have the cash for that right now. I will as soon as I can correct a cash flow problem. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Chris:

Compulsion at 15 weeks? Please no! Throw away your prong if you have one. You will kill his drive. I would not know a game warden if I tripped over one. But I do not have to. Give me a dog with high ball drive and I can make him sing the national anthem. As long as you have established yourself as the pack leader ALL work should be motivational. No physical or verbal corrections at all. He’s working because he wants to not because you want him to. “Well that’s easy for you to say Vince. Not all of us kennel our dogs (Dog hater).” I have one word for you nay sayers. Redirect. If the dog goes to bite the couch redirect him towards a ball. Trust me. A moving ball or rag is much more fun than a dead couch. Every correction at this age reduces drive. When he matures and you introduce corrections in the distraction phase you will be happy with all the drive you have built. Because some of that will be lost. Two steps forward. One step back. You’re still ahead by one. Now here comes the exception. A dog MUST come when called. Not a competition recall. But if my dog gets loose and runs into the street he better come when called. Who knows when Ed will breed a Jenny/Otis litter again. LET A PUPPY BE A PUPPY. Is the golden rule for raising a pup.

Vince is 100% correct. This pup needs to be a pup. This pup is in the learning stage and any harsh corrections would be a bad idea. Once you scrape some cash together, Ed's tape "basic dog obedience" would be a great start. Probably the best basic training tape out there in my opinion.

I have been working with her on Sit, Down and Heel a little bit with motivational training. What about the clickers? I've never used one before, but then again I've never used treats before either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I noticed that Ed says the clickers a "fad" and the only use he recommends is in tracking. Since I'm going to train in tracking I guess introducing them would be a good start.

Vince
You said you wouldn't know a game warden if you tripped over one. It's like a wildlife cop. Tracking down poachers, people hunting deer at night, things like that. Can get hairy at times facing down a 1/2 dozen hunters, all of them armed, and trying to arrest 1 or 2 of them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> )

Chris

Forgot to add this part. How about starting on recall? Put her on a long line? Treats every time she comes when called?

I like to use treats for training. Then what I do is I slowly phase them out by giving a treat first every time, then every two out of three times, then every other time, then once in a while. Of course knowing the proper way to praise every time the dog obeys the command is very important. After a while, the praise alone will be sufficient. One other thing that you should do is to try and avoid what I call "random come commands". What I mean by this is try and make sure that when you casually call the dog to come,(I'm not talking about formal training sessions)the dog does not get used to ignoring you. Then what happens is you start repeating come commands. This is how we "nag" our dogs to death. Until your dog is well into the correction phase of training I would not call her over to you(of course unless she is in danger)anytime you have a pretty good idea that she will ignore you. I'm certainly no pro. Just my opinion and things that have worked for me.

I agree with Chuck once again and would like to add a few things. A high ball drive dog is simply to train this on. If you are lucky to have one have a friend hold your dog by the collar while you pump your dog up by teasing him with the ball. Once his frustration level increases run away from him. As you are running have your friend let go of the dog. Turn around give the command and when the dog gets to you give him the ball. This imprints speed on the recall. Listen to chuck. Use one command for the recall and another for come over by me. Ed sells a great obedience book by To Rose. It’s cheap and well put together.

Chris:

Your work sounds very interesting. I know what you mean about working with danger day in and day out. I work in the computer field and those paper cuts could be life threatening.

Vince, If a dog is rewarded with say a ball in response for correct behaviour (ie sit when told, come when called) will the dog become fixated on a ball. Will it, for example, let go a bite and chase a ball if one presents itself? To date Ive just used praise and pats but if a ball works then Ill use it. Im just looking for the quickest and best way to bring the dog to its full potential.

Vince,

I'd like to ask a question - just for my own edification because I don't understand it.

Lets say a dog has tremendous ball drive like your Rabiat and will flatten you for a ball. And a dog can never have too much drive. To me it kind of implies a crazed, non-thinking animal that will stop at nothing for a ball. I had a trainer tell me once that his dog would chase a ball until his pads bled. Should a dog like that be used for service or is that more of a desirable trait for sport?

I am interested in knowing.