This is a quote from Jason in a prior post and a comment I knew I should not have made but my finger hit the enter before I could change my mind:


Jason: “I feel that EVERY dog needs to have a correction phase and a proofing phase in their obedience training.”

While for 999 out of a 1000 dogs this is a correct statement. There are a small percentage of high drive dogs that do not need a correction phase. Could you use compulsion with them? Sure. The higher the drive the more compulsion you can use. But you can have the same or even greater reliability using drive alone. Remember every SchH handler says “My dog has super ball drive or super food drive.” I’m talking drive where it hurts inside when they see a ball or food. There need to satisfy their drive is greater than the fear of compulsion. PS. This is not a post for beginners. Follow Ed’s three phase approach like the bible. Trust me you do not have one of these dogs.

Jason's response back to me:

"First of all I'd like to thank you for those great odds! Now, forgive me as I try to answer your statement with a question. What do you do when this dog is hurting inside to go after, or do something that can get him killed? What do you use to stop him? Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of extinguishing drive for the sake of perfect obedience. However,I want obedience that I can count on like the sun coming up tomorrow and I'll have it at all cost. I have yet to see the dog that was geneticly predisposed to sitting and staying when he REALLY wants to do something else. I really don't think that I can train obedience any other way than the "3phase", but maybe someone else can.
I think what we're really doing here is skirting around a much simpler but much more important topic. We are definately talking about two different styles of training obedience. One leaves you in control through (and make no mistake about this) COMPLETE domination over your dogs. I don't think the other will give you that. I have no problem with my domination over others for their own good. Example; I once captained my little Falmouth cutter sailboat into blue water, and while I was not ALWAYS the favorate of the crew, we ALWAYS got to where we were going, and we got there safe and sound."

This has nothing to do with domination. It has to do with motivations. Positive versus negative. For a very select few the promise of a prey item is greater motivation than any compulsion you can give.

Ps. I did not post this in the competition section because I was talking general obedience. For the majority, in general obedience you dog MUST do two things. One is come to me every time on the drop of a dime and when coming to me will cause injury he must down as told. For a very select few this can be done faster and more reliable with a ball than a prong. That was my point. Nothing more or less.

Vince, why not use the ball AND prong? I thought the point I raised was legitemate. Especially so with a high drive dog. When he gets loose(and it does happen)and his ball drive is leading him into a bad situation, isn't one going to wish they had some "or else" factored into his obedience training?

Let's take this offline. I will private mail you. Yes Drive-Compulsion-Drive is the equation for precise and energetic obedience.