I am replacing a 3+ year old GSD that became a "fear biter" at age 9 months. The GSD came from "showline" Schutzhund III titled parents. After the last biting we decided we could not afford the risk to humans or the liability.

Friends recommend that I consider a breeder who produces "old fashioned" GSD dogs as they will be more relaxed, better temperment and have less drive. Our goal is to find a stable, healthy, intelligent and highly trainable GSD. Our expectation is the GSD will be well mannered with grandchildren, family and friends at our home or outside our home. The dog is first and foremost a family companion and then serves as family protector.

The following is a piece from the breeder's web site which expresses an opinion regarding the current state of GSD breeding for show ring and Schutzhund titles. I would appreciate Ed or someone helping me sort through the pro's and con's of the opinion expressed by this breeder. Thanks for your help.

"My main goal for my breeding program is to bring back what the shepherd used to be. Because I do not focus on showing or sport dogs I can look closely at what is needed for perfect family temperament. All my breeding dogs are house pets too so they do not just stay in pens as I rotate them all in and out. Most also have temperament certifications often with obedience titles.(so they attend obedience classes as well) . I like calm but energetic dogs with no hind end slope, straight top lines (backs) , tight round feet, with large heads, heavy bones, and tall frames typical of the old fashioned shepherds. Yes, my dogs are large, often very large but size should never be a factor over soundness and OFA certified hips are of great importance. But perhaps even more so is age, the new style German shepherd is dying or being put down much sooner then shepherds from just 20 years ago. the breeding for show and shutzhund also seems to have an effect on genetic health. I am committed to keeping lines that average 12 to 14 years of age."

I'm more of a Doberman person than a German Shepherd person, but I feel since my breed was somewhat damaged by the desire for softer temperaments I can comment a bit here.

The problems you are describing are predominantly training and leadership issues more so than "Schutzhund" issues. I'm not denying that there may be some issues with the breeding, but a good, well-bred Schutzhund dog rarely becomes a fear biter. It sounds like your dog has weak nerves.

As to the "old type" of GSD, the breed has always been a working dog first. The ideal dog that you describe for your family is possible, but you have to work for it.

I don't feel warm and fuzzy about a breeder that breeds away from drive in order to produce a mellow temperament. Then you are left with a dog that looks like a GSD but is essentially a completely different dog altogether. This is not the "original GSD" but a pale impersonation of one, IMHO.

My advice would be to stay away from show lines, and look to good, solid working line breeders that know what they are doing. Then you will be more apt to get a dog with a good solid temperament, that still maintains the drive that is indicative of a good GSD.

It is possible to have a stable, friendly temperament without sacrificing any of the drive. Even with a great disposition though, you need to put in the work. No dog is 'all that' right out of the box.

Hi Brandon, I don't really see anything impressive from the description of that breeder's dogs. I know showline GSDs and workingline GSDs are 2 completely different animals. I can see how your showline pup may have had nerve issues all along. There are plenty of SchH III titled showlines, just conditioned to the training.

My opinion, research and talk to workingline GSD breeders (there are some good people here who can give you names). You can't go wrong with a working GSD and a good breeder will be able to pick the right temperamented pup for your lifestyle.

Edited by Alex Corral (06/02/2009 04:05 PM)
Edit reason: Posted at same time as Kristel - good post Kristel!

Most of the ads that I see that advertise "old fashioned" GSD dogs are simply backyard breeders producing pets.

They don't test their stock in any meaningful way, and they're basically breeding for what we in the working community would consider serious flaws.

Let the buyer beware.

When you say that you are "replacing" your dog, what does that mean?

Just based on what you provided on the breeder's goals, I'm not a fan.

SM

We returnded the GSD to the breeder who has agreed to place her in a situation where she can be successful - such as guarding a warehouse.

Brandon,
I recommend you read up on what the GSD 'used' to be in temperment. Take a gander at some pictures of what the GSD 'used' to look like.
Then you can decide for yourself what you think could be expected from the breeder you were asking about.

The breeder you referenced in your quote has been discussed a number times on this board. Use the search function (upper left of the page) to find those threads.

As far as the longevity, increasing size generally corresponds to a decreasing life-span. That is, smaller dogs live longer.

In any case, a properly bred male shouldn't run much more than 85-90#, females about 65#.

 Quote: Brandon Jackson

We returnded the GSD to the breeder who has agreed to place her in a situation where she can be successful - such as guarding a warehouse.

Hmmm

Well. As far as a new dog goes, ask the breeder why she is breeding? What is the point in her breeding? Does she honestly feel that she is improving the breed?

I have a friend with a 'pet bred' GSD. She has a lazy dog that is not obedient, extremely overweight and hates to move off of the sofa. Without a purpose the dog has nothing to do.

Working line breeders breed dogs with a sound temperment and the 'correct shape'. They will occasionally have laid back pups that would suit a pet home rather than a working home.
Do your research before committing to anything or any one breeder.

You mean the breeder sold you a junk yard dog, I would look around some more, German Show line dogs may be your speed, probably mine as well. I got two working line GSDs from police/east german/ czech border patrol lines that are totally convinced that kids are little ball chuckers and hotdog dispensers. Do some more shopping