Hi there,

I started my 16 week boxer-mix on raw from kibble four weeks ago. The first two weeks were pretty inconsistent poop-wise and she received no organ meats, but we assumed it was just her getting used to the diet change.

We started her with the diet advice found on this site (http://leerburg.com/feedpups.htm), but we found after a while that she wouldn't eat more than one chicken back at a time. Obviously as she gets bigger, one chicken back wouldn't be enough, so we adjusted it for her.

She is now 22 lbs. By my calculations she should be getting somewhere between 18 and 35 ounces of food each day.

Her current diet looks like this:

AM:
Chicken back ~8oz
1/2 Chicken Thigh ~3oz
1/4 tsp Vit C
1/2 tsp Alfalfa / Kelp mix
1 squirt Salmon Oil
100 IU Vit E

PM:
Chicken back ~8oz
1/2 Chicken Thigh ~3 oz
1/4 tsp Vit C

PM:
1/2 Chicken Thigh ~3oz
2 oz Chicken gizzards & hearts
(2 oz chicken livers every other day)
(1 egg every other day that liver is not given)
1 squirt salmon oil
1/4 tsp Vit C
100 IU Vit E

Her morning poops are solid and well-formed, although she can sometimes take a little while to finish eliminating (doesn't seem like she's straining, though).

Problem:
She has terrible gas from about 1:00PM til she eliminates anywhere from 5pm-7pm. Her evening poop is thick, chunky diarrhea.

I apologize that this was so long. Any advice? Thank you in advance!

Too much variety at first.

Forget the supplements for right now, too.

That amount of C could be a problem. Isn't that about 3000 mg? I could be wrong, but it sounds like a lot for a pup that small.

Did you remove skin and fat from the chicken backs at first?

Your food amount figure looks good. Starting on the low end of those figures is good to begin with, and then increase the amount after the dog shows bowel tolerance.

At what point, meaning on what ingredients, was there no diarrhea (assuming that you added foods in one at a time)?

If there never was such a point, if you started multiple ingredients at once, I'd back up. I'd drop the C and a lot of stuff, and go temporarily to just backs.

First, has she been to the vet and had a fecal check and all that?

Since some poops are formed log-poops, and assuming a healthy pup, I'd just back up and start for a couple of days of just chicken backs with the skin/fat peeled off, and pretty smallish meals, too (like 5 oz., 5 oz., and 5 oz.) and observe the poop.

I suspect that the organ meat and eggs may need a slooooow and gradual intro, with a bit of organ meat every day and not a larger amount every other day, and so on.

For now, I'd start from Step 1, get perfect poops, and start adding things back, one at a time. You will also be able to I.D. the gas offender. (Four weeks is kinda long for the acclimatizing gas to persist, IME.)

It will be OK. Some dogs need the new diet done this slow one-at-a-time way. In fact, we see enough on just this board for me to always advise it now for a dog being switched. I have never heard or read of a problem doing it the one-at-a-time, watching-the-poop way.

Keep posting. There are plenty of experienced folks here who will get you through the redo.

Ah ... we posted together.

You're in good hands, Barry.

 Quote: Michael_Wise

Too much variety at first.

Forget the supplements for right now, too

That amount of C could be a problem. Isn't that about 3000 mg? I could be wrong, but it sounds like a lot for a pup that small.

Ok, I'll nix the C and supplements for now. I figured the Leerburg puppy-feeding page was overdoing it on the C a bit, but since it's water-soluble, I didn't think it would be an issue.

 Quote:

Did you remove skin and fat from the chicken backs at first?

Yes, I removed the skin, fat, and any organs that were left attached. I'm still removing most of the skin and fat. I started leaving the organs this week after her poops were solid in the AM. But, her poop in the evening is concerning me.

 Quote:

Your food amount figure looks good. Starting on the low end of those figures is good to begin with, and then increase the amount after the dog shows bowel tolerance.

Ok, we'll go back to straight, stripped backs for a while and see if things solidify.

Many thanks.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

At what point, meaning on what ingredients, was there no diarrhea (assuming that you added foods in one at a time)?

If there never was such a point, if you started multiple ingredients at once, I'd back up. I'd drop the C and a lot of stuff, and go temporarily to just backs.

There was never a point where there was absolutely no diarrhea. There was also never a point where there was a very liquid diarrhea. It's like pudding, more or less.

 Quote:

First, has she been to the vet and had a fecal check and all that?

Yes, we provided two stool samples to the vet. One at eight weeks and one at 15 weeks. Aside from being extremely soft and not-formed, she is in good health.

 Quote:

Since some poops are formed log-poops, and assuming a healthy pup, I'd just back up and start for a couple of days of just chicken backs with the skin/fat peeled off, and pretty smallish meals, too (like 5 oz., 5 oz., and 5 oz.) and observe the poop.

The only concern I have is not feeding enough in this case. Will that be a problem?

 Quote:

I suspect that the organ meat and eggs may need a slooooow and gradual intro, with a bit of organ meat every day and not a larger amount every other day, and so on.

For now, I'd start from Step 1, get perfect poops, and start adding things back, one at a time. You will also be able to I.D. the gas offender. (Four weeks is kinda long for the acclimatizing gas to persist, IME.)

It will be OK. Some dogs need the new diet done this slow one-at-a-time way. In fact, we see enough on just this board for me to always advise it now for a dog being switched. I have never heard or read of a problem doing it the one-at-a-time, watching-the-poop way.

Keep posting. There are plenty of experienced folks here who will get you through the redo.

We'll be going back to square-one tonight. Thanks!

There was never a point where there was absolutely no diarrhea.


Did you start with multiple ingredients from day one? Or was there diarrhea on plain de-fatted backs?

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

There was never a point where there was absolutely no diarrhea.


Did you start with multiple ingredients from day one? Or was there diarrhea on plain de-fatted backs?

We started with multiple ingredients from day one in the form of stripped backs + supplements. I realize now that was probably a mistake.

I do appreciate your time.

 Quote: barry formus

... We started with multiple ingredients from day one in the form of stripped backs + supplements. I realize now that was probably a mistake.

That's good news, actually, because it makes me pretty sure that the initial "diagnosis" is probably correct: too much too fast.

Small stripped-down beginner meals can make everything so simple. You'll see! The Leerburg diet info is the best, BTW ... it's just the need for some dogs to make the switch gradually when they have not been weaned to raw.

 Quote: Barry Formus

Ok, I'll nix the C and supplements for now. I figured the Leerburg puppy-feeding page was overdoing it on the C a bit, but since it's water-soluble, I didn't think it would be an issue.

Yes, but excess is evacuated via diarrhea.:wink:

The main cause of the inconsistent stool, IMO, is the inconsistent menu. It'll be great later, but for now, for a new raw fed dog, it was just too much too soon.

Sounds like she did pretty good, though. This doesn't look like a big problem to me. She should straighten out quickly.

Waiting for a consistently good stool before adding ingredients will help with this.

 Quote: Barry Formus

The only concern I have is not feeding enough in this case. Will that be a problem?

You're only starting with that small of an amount. It will basically ensure that you aren't overfeeding. This is only for a day or 2, and then you'll start increasing the amount of food to the desired amount. Just easier on the stomach to not have to deal with a ton of food.