Hey guys, I have a question about my white shepherd. He is my bf's dog, really, and he works with him most of the time. He's been having trouble training him though and I tried working with him to see the problems myself.

The dog's attention span seems very limited. He has been marker trained as well as just the normal route of good, then reward and as soon as he sits and downs has been rewarded, however, when trying to draw it out he does one of two things: One, he will switch to offering behaviors lightning fast or he will just get up and walk away. Most of the time he loses interest and just wanders off. One of the times I knew he was hungry he just slowly wandered off and proceeded to lay down and chew a stick. Yet when it's mealtime this dog goes absolutely crazy-like it's the best thing in the world and his focus is 100% sharp.

When I draw it out it can go like this: I say sit, he sits and as SOON as he sits I say good in a happy voice, before I finish saying good he's in a down so I can't even draw it out half a second because he's already moving. I use good for alot of positive things, such as when I pet him or give him the occasional treat.

We have tried a variety of treats and even the smelliest hotdogs don't mean much to him in terms of focus. I've tried doing it before mealtimes( we feed twice a day ), even holding back say, lunch, and before supper trying to work with him and no change. They are fully raw fed, if that matters. What better food could I offer than stinky hotdogs? I have tried bits of beef topping for pizza and he will eat several then begin spitting them out, losing interest and not even accepting them-and they are smelly and oily as heck! Dry treats? Bleh, what are those, hunks of dirt? As for prey drive he is similar, he will chase and grab but doesn't tug, never has. He loses interest after a few throws of a ball too.

Thing is, we've worked him for months to where he has sit and down perfect with the immediate rewards but when trying to add half a second on he starts getting them mixed up and downing when told to sit and seems to regress even because then he seems even less interested.

If this helps: This is the same pup that didn't get very excited about people contact and still remains very laid back towards us. He is better now, but there is still a bit of a fire that only lights under his butt when another dog is around. He has never play-bowed or tried to initiate chase at one of us no matter how excited we get.

Details. What is "good in a happy voice"? Intermediate or terminal? I mean, what is the actual marker? Is "good" the "encourager" or the marker?

Good is supposed to be an encourager, we've switched him over to marker training with 'yes' as the marker. That's what he was started on until we got the marker training dvd.

So it's been awhile since we've done the old 'good' then reward training.

He just doesn't seem to get he is doing something right when we say it, it's like he doesn't hear us.

Mark with "yes!" as soon as his butt hits the ground. I mean, this stuff is so precise that I mismarked a sit once when my puppy threw his arms up into the air like an idiot. The next three times he sat he did it until he got the point that that wasn't what I wanted. Once your dog's butt is hitting the ground, slowly start extending the time before the mark and then start using the encourager. If you haven't yet, watch the Michael Ellis videos in the LB Newsletters. I picked up a buttload of info.

Thanks for the replies. I think he was pushed a bit too fast. Going back to step one and marker training until he is very solid with them both again, then will add a split second til mark and so on.

Any tips on building food drive? He ate breakfast yesterday morning and hasn't had anything since. Today he wasn't interested in any treats even though he had to have been hungry. He gets SO excited at mealtimes though. Would cutting his meals up into small pieces and feeding throughout the day during training help? Not sure what to do in that area.

What are you using for treats? My dogs go nuts over small cubes of hot dog and sharp cheddar.

I've seen people say that they intentionally underfeed their dogs to get really high food drive. I've also seen people say that the only food their dog gets is what it gets during training, which is basically what you were thinking.

I'm inexperienced with dog training...I just wanted to offer you
some encouragement.

I am marker training my 5 mo. old new puppy and have experienced
some of the same behaviors you mentioned. For me what is getting
results is: repetition, trying to achieve perfect timing, teaching the
'extender' of "good", which my puppy seems to finally
understand now (this took a while), and ending sessions while he is still
interested, as far as possible.

I think with my pup that losing interest early was caused by
him thinking he wasn't getting anywhere. He is doing that less and less as he
learns that there are things he knows how to do to get a 'good'
or a 'yes!' (in my case, 'good' always means 'yes is coming...keep it up')

I'm hoping that will happen for you over time.
Good luck!

Hmm...we've tried alot of things. Hotdog, Beef, I lost count of the small dry treat numbers, a few different types of gummie-like treats like zuke's and some different brands we found in the all natural section.

One thing we haven't tried though is just cheese. I'll be trying that as soon as I run to the store. We have the processed american cheese squares but I want to try the better stuff too. I'll let you guys know on that.

And Claudette, your pup is adorable!

Heather, Sorry if we know this and I have forgotten: What is your dog's weight like?


QUOTE: He ate breakfast yesterday morning and hasn't had anything since. END

Thanks, Heather! I'm smitten, personally.

Sometimes I have also used marker training to increase interest
in an object, such as a toy, bed, or even treat.


It seems to work for me, maybe it is something you might wish
to try too.