What do you think of this heeling technique?
#21601 - 12/20/2002 01:51 PM |
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It seems to work, but I was wondering what does the board think of this off leash heeling technique.
The goal is to eventually have the dog to off leash heel. You use a long lead 15' or more, you let the dog move out and when he gets to the end of the lead you pop him, and head in another direction. It was the way the GSD, first understood it.
The trainer explains that it doesn't take long for the dog to understand that the safest place for him is at your left thigh and he better pay attention to you.
Is there a better way to do it? Can you break weaker dog, is this the quickest way to do this?
I was amazed after this training I had to send him away to get him to leave my left side.
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Re: What do you think of this heeling technique?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21602 - 12/20/2002 02:29 PM |
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Personally, I don't like it. The motivator here is pain avoidance. What happens when the leash is off? Suddenly the dog realizes you can't pop him, so what keeps him there? Not to mention, watch your dog's ears and tail with this work.
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Re: What do you think of this heeling technique?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21603 - 12/20/2002 03:09 PM |
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I've got a seven month old that just went through this type of heel training. He was o.k. with it for about 10 minutes. When the trainer continued to heel/correct him, he got squirrely and turned on the trainer. My pup will not tolerate that type of training for too long at one time. He does heel like a magnet though (now). I don't like it and will try to keep it to a minimum in the future.
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Re: What do you think of this heeling technique?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21604 - 12/20/2002 03:24 PM |
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I agree with Deanna...you have no motivation for the dog to work whatsoever. He does it for fear of being corrected to avoid the pain.
Using a prey item or food to teach and after he knows the command you apply compulsion. Keep the drive going as well when you do this....remember DRIVE-COMPULSION-DRIVE. Alway end on a good note with good feelings.
I would recommend Flinks drive focus and grip tape and also training a competition heeling dog with Flinks when it is relesed.
Your dog will have his tail going and ears up and will LOVE to do the work....even after compulsion is introduced. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Pat
"Justice"
Natz vom Leerburg SchH II
9/9/01 - 7/29/05
I'll meet you at the rainbow bridge... |
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Re: What do you think of this heeling technique?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21605 - 12/20/2002 03:53 PM |
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I think it works good.Nobody said anything about pain being involved,its all about getting the dogs attention you can do this on any kind of collar. You have to use lots of praise,when the dog is coming towards you,and when the dog is in the correct place. I wouldnt turn my back on the dog though,I would just walk backwards,praising the dog and turn into heel position when the dog got there.You have to makes yourself the best place to be.I also wouldnt let the dog see me make the correction,hold the lead against your body and make the corrections with your footwork.
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Re: What do you think of this heeling technique?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21606 - 12/20/2002 04:01 PM |
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I thought it was harash training also but I've heard another trainer say this is the fastest way to get the dog to do heel off leash. He stated hat the dog doesn't know the correct is not coming because you have weighted their collar.
My male GSD would heel off leash, well after this type training. His tails is up and he's paying attention, you can turn, jog or walk and he's right there. Now I've added some occassional treats and "thats a good boy", rubs and pets when he in position.
The Female Rottie did not like the harsh, treatment and told me so(barking at me), but she did stay close after only two corrections. Her heeling with the same type treats/praising is better then the GSD, but not when you stop, and want her to sit or down afterwards. She is still up looking for some strokes/petting, you have slow her down. Like hey now we are doing something else.
I got rid of that trainer after we bumped head on how to do a left turn, he wanted me to knee the dog hard until he is waiting for the planted right leg pivot. I figured there has to be another way then knocking my dog over to teach somethings as simple as a left turn. We got it without him, though I understand his way is quicker. As you guys mentioned I want the dog to enjoy training not fear it, because he not going to take too many getting knocked over.
I noticed he only showed me once, how its done. The dog growled at him. He said, I only did it right once going by him. I had to cut him loose even though his lessons worked.
I didn't like his philosophy, "Dogs don't see pain like we do, if you correct them hard they will respects you. And propmtly do what you ask". Then why is he showing teeths? I asked.
What do you guys think about how he taught the left turn when heeling? Man I thought that was crule and unusual treatment for a close left turn. He had tapes slowing his pupils and dogs winning Ob events and him training protection to patrol units.
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Re: What do you think of this heeling technique?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21607 - 12/20/2002 04:25 PM |
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I learned this method many years ago, I believe it was called the 3 minute heel. Ya it works great right up to the point where the dog figures out that there is no leash. Then youve got a problem. Since then ive found the methods most use here work better. Mind you i said better not faster. My old dog 10 yrs ago was trained with the jerk method, she will still heel great as long as the leash is on. My youngster however was trained through motivation first then correction for not doing command right. Lots of praise and treats ect. These are both Akitas and my youngster is now a 2 yr old male, his ob is 100 times better then any ive trained before. He is also more reliable then the others.
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Re: What do you think of this heeling technique?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21608 - 12/20/2002 04:32 PM |
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I teach left turns the same time I teach right turns. Maybe even spend alittle more time on them in the begining.I make a sharp left turn into the dog pop straight back on the leash with my left hand and bump the dog in shoulder or side of the neck with the right knee while saying heel.I start off with 180 degree turns, then go to regular left turns after that. There is no need to knock your dog down or try to hurt it,just teach the idea of turning and staying out of the way. It doesnt take much and theyre doing it.Timimng is important and the dog must be in correct heeling position before you turn.It also helps if you have the dog looking up at you thats why I carry me treats in my mouth or sometimes just make the dog think I am.
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Re: What do you think of this heeling technique?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21609 - 12/20/2002 04:42 PM |
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Tami, thats not true if done correctly. Thats where timing comes in and you dont correct with you arm and also you have to be on a loose lead,thats the most important thing,the loose lead . Actually dogs arent hard to train its the people thats hard.
Stop making excuses for your dog and start training it! |
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Re: What do you think of this heeling technique?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21610 - 12/20/2002 04:54 PM |
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This is the way i learned back then and was done as you describe, I guess for some this method works well. Personally ive used both and found the motivation training first to be more affective in the long run but then im used to dealing with a breed that is know for their ability to do it their way (stubron, independent, ect.) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Part of the reason I love working with them they are a constant challenge. Every one has differant ways of training and does what works best for them.
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