Hi. I wanted to get your thoughts on purchasing a trained adult dog. I have been browsing sites such as Harrison K-9 and Whited K-9. I am interested in getting a family dog that is trained as a protector, but I am hearing different views about how they are trained and the incredible price for these dogs. Does anyone out there have experience with this? I'm not sure where to start...these training facilities all have slick web-sites and letters of recommendation, but I want to be sure I am going in the right direction...any thoughts would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Vanessa

You need to speak with Will Rambeau.

A fair amount of these "Personal Protection Dog" vendors are con artists.

Looking at Harrison K9's website:
First clue:

Personal Protection dogs ARE NOT family dogs.
They aren't going to lounge around the pool with your 6 year old daughter, ignoring tons of strange people at a Bar-b-que.

Second clue:
They cost WAY too much.

Third clue:
99% of the bites in their training video are ON a sleeve.

Fourth clue:
All of their "press" was in "rich people" publications. Not dog publications.

The one thing I did like:
They offer free "brush up" training for life. This is important.

But buying a dog from them is going to be highway robbery.

You're paying $60,000 for a green started Schuzthund dog.

Can't find a site for Whited K-9.
Are they using Dobies (one of the links was to a Dobie forum)?

That right there is evidence enough.
There are NOT enough GOOD Dobies out there for them to be exclusively using Dobes for PP.

 Quote: alyssa myracle

You need to speak with Will Rambeau.

A fair amount of these "Personal Protection Dog" vendors are con artists.

This is good advice;
Will is a moderator on this forum. Scroll down to the bottom of this page; you will see his name listed w/ the rest of the moderators. Click on it and send him a private message (pm) and tell him what you want from a dog.
He's not on the forum all the time, but I'm sure he'll answer your questions eventually...

 Quote: alyssa myracle

First clue:

Personal Protection dogs ARE NOT family dogs.
They aren't going to lounge around the pool with your 6 year old daughter, ignoring tons of strange people at a Bar-b-que.

I agree w/your first post about con artists, but I gotta disagree about this. They should be perfectly capable of ignoring strange people who are not presenting a threat. A dog who cannot lounge around the pool w/a familiar 6 yr old shouldn't be encouraged in PP, IMO. An overly sharp, guard-type dog perhaps can't be a family dog, but any PPD w/proper temperament for the job should be a stable enough animal to be in any situation and not be a liability if handled w/some common sense.

To say they "ARE NOT" family dogs is a bit sweeping, IMO. True, most will not be overly outgoing and love everyone, and may be one person dogs, but saying they can't behave in a party situation or hang out w/a child isn't fair either.

If they were told to ingore the strange people at the BBQ, then they better damn well do it.

I think what you said is true of many, if not most, dogs SOLD as PPDs...but I don't think it's the way it SHOULD be, if that makes sense and I wanted to throw that into the discussion.

I can't say as I have seen a really good representative of a PPD sold as a PPD. More often than not, they're a dog w/some issues who bites ok and someone wants to make a bunch of money off of someone's fear.

Edited to say, Harrison is one crafty s.o.b. He uses almost exclusively showline dogs who have the temperament (read: lack of b@lls and drive) to hang out w/the family, but can be eventually prodded to bite a sleeve, provided no pressure is ever applied. He counts on the fact that most people will never need the dog. And he makes a ton of money.

Hey, I'll sell someone one of my dogs for only $30,000. Good home only, and I'll fly them there in person and even buy the family dinner.

It probably was too much of a blanket statement.
I should have made it clear that it was in direct response to the picture posted on the website.

The dog literally has his back turned to a crowd of people, and is lounging about like nothing is going on.

Granted, the picture is clearly staged, but even staging a picture like that says a great deal about the mentality of the people staging it.

They're over-pushing the whole "dog only bites on command" mentality.
I prefer the "dog will not bite when told not to" approach better.

Caleb?

Alyssa, I didn't know you were referring to a particular dog. I didn't to to Harrison's site b/c I have been there before, when I needed a good laugh. I gotta say...he's a good businessman. I thought you were just making a general statement which is usually correct, but it needs to be addressed that it SHOULD NOT be this way.

Jo, what about him? If you mean can he do those things, yeah. He is not friendly, per se, but he's neutral, sometimes bordering on friendly. He can interact w/strange children if they are not brats, and if they will throw a ball, he finds them slightly more endearing. He is fine in family party settings as long as no one tries to clobber, corner, and hug him. He is not one for affection, but if they leave him alone (which I drill into people from the get-go), he's a calm, content dog who you would probably find IN the pool w/the kid, not lounging next to it. Forced affection is not appreciated by either of us, but he will warn someone before doing something stupid, thankfully.

Is that what you were asking? Or were you asking if I'd sell him for $30,000? Hell no. You could add a zero or two and I'd still say no. I will train a Capri pup myself (I am confident I can train a dog to Harrison specifications :grin and when it's all ready (should be about 2 weeks after it's old enough to start, LOL) I will sell him/her for $30,000.

Alyssa, your last sentence is exactly what I think is key here. If I tell him to not bite anyone at the party, he had better not, unless one of them physically assaults me and leaves me unable to command him otherwise. Semantics, sure, but it does make a difference.

Thank you for the responses...it's given me a lot to think about. After reading Mr. Rambeau's post on purchasing a PPD, I am quite educated...but still curious about where I can find a reputable trainer/seller. Where to begin?