What affects does a "puppy roll" have on young puppies (around 8 wks of age and up)? I know a trainer in this area who uses this as a training method for just about everything when the puppy doesn't respond on the first "pop" from the choke collar NO I AM NOT TAKING MY DOG THERE :rolleyes: . Because all of the dog trainers in this area, in my personal opinion SUCK-I want to become a dog trainer, a good trainer, not some crackerjack box type....What is the best way to go about this? Schools, etc? Do you need a certificate or a degree ( I would think and hope so). ALL of the local vets do not know of any dog trainers in this area that they could or would recommend <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I want to help change this.

Exactly what is thr trainer doing when he does this "puppy roll"? He's popping eight week old puppy's? You did well to run the other way.

She-the trainer grabs them by the sides of neck flips the puppy over slams them to the ground-and I do mean slam, holds them down by the neck if they even move she shakes them-often times hard enough to smack the puppies head into the ground. She holds them and continues to do this until they quite fighting for their life (complete submission)-you can see the fear and terror in the puppies eyes, or till they finally pee all over from fear submission. She also insists that EVERYONE even tiny tiny dogs wear chain chokers...Weinie dogs, Pugs, Boston Terriers, some of the owners didn't even know how to proper "pop" the choker and one lady who had a 10 week old Boston Terrier puppy tried to "pop" the choker and the puppy when flying to the ground. How do you stop a poor trainer like this from being able to train any more? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Anyone got a GUN??? This lady deserves one between the eyes.

I totally agree-that is why I am hoping someone here can help me on what I can do to stop these trainers, and where I can go to school to become a trainer. All of the trainers in this area seem to have attitued "you are the Alpha and if they don't comply drop them". I know you have to show your dog that you are the Alpha BUT NOT IN THIS WAY <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Thats nucking futs! I am constantly astonished by what people will accept as dog training. . .

This "trainer" should be brought up on charges of animal abuse. This is sick.

To discuss the alpha roll in itself however, I do feel there is some benefit to this method. NOT THIS WAY THOUGH!!! I will probably get hit for this, but I do use alpha rolls with puppies and dogs. When I do an alpha roll, it is done firmly, but gently. We place our dogs in a down, tell them "roll" and guide the dog onto its back. Then we place a hand on the dog's chest to firmly but gently hold the dog still for a moment. There is no slamming or rough handling involved at all when this method is done right. It is just a reminder to the dog that says "hey I'm in charge here, remember." It is also NOT used as any sort of correction or punishment. This technique simply lets the puppy or dog know beyond a shadow of a doubt who is boss. You most certainly do not need to put the dog in an alpha roll roughly. It is the position of the dogs that brings about submission, NOT the way the dog is put into the position. "Slamming" a dog down will only injure and frighten.

We need to remember that many people have training techniques that work for them that may or may not work for others. This type of alpha roll works for me and my dogs. It may not fit into the training schedule of someone else's dogs. That said, however, the type of "alpha roll" discribed by Dee Dee is nothing but an abusive, bullying, method used by someone that IMO has no business training.

I dont like the idea of putting a pup or dog on its back. I believe you can show dominance with out putting the dog into submission. I dont want to reinforce submissive behaviors at all. I dont want to teach a dog that being helpless is an option, that is just destroying confidence.

to dee dee and kali , read what lou castle has to say about alpha rolling and handler dominance issues under " big dog vs. little dog " page 4 general conversation . changed me from a roller to a non . it's good reading and will give you a new perspective .

I'd like to grab that trainer by the sides of her neck....

Training like this exemplifies people who have absolutely no clue, patience, understanding or what it takes to be a trainer (or teacher) of any kind. They are simply cowards who use dominance and fear for control.

Try to ascertain her certifying agency (if she has one) and find out their protocols on training. If they differ, inform them of her practices, maybe they can intervene.

Ask your local SPCA about any standards they may have. I'm sure it would not go further than individual civil suits anyway...

Then there is always the media..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />