On a mini vacation trip last weekend Oscar had the great fortune (in his mind) to catch a wild rabbit... then have a bit of a "snack". He essentially ate the middle of the bunny, which would be most of the guts, the back, rib cage, etc. (not front end/head, or rear legs). I admit, I was initially kind of excited that he got such, er, optimally "fresh" nutrition... but then I became increasingly concerned about parasites and worms - I know wild rabbits are famous for being riddled with all sorts of icky things. FWIW, this one looked pretty healthy.

I'm less concerned with tularemia (MA usually has a handful of human cases each year, but they are primarily recorded in the southern coastal areas of Martha's Vineyard, Nantucket and Cape Cod, and have lately been of the inhalent variety - Oscars rabbit was caught inland in Lincoln) and more worried about worms - tapeworms especially. My question: Do I need to wait until I SEE the worms before I give a dewormer? Or is there ever reason to be "proactive" with such things and could I just give it to him in the next week or so, when the possible worms would be attached but not large enough to be getting passed out? I notice Panacur treats many worms, but not the common tapeworm (which would require Praziquantel?) so I probably need actual diagnosis before we start anything? Finding things in poo is gross, but I can deal - finding them in the house, on bedding and such makes my skin crawl...

Anyone with experience with worms like this?
Or dogs that have caught and ate wild rabbits (with or without complication)?
Many thanks,
~Natalya

Hambone does catch and eat rabbits and I (knock on wood) have only wormed him twice. Once as a puppy and once when I adopted a throw away cat who had lived in the barn next to the property for a month.

I would wait myself. As I said, Hambone has eaten caught game for 9 years, and no problems. (By the way, Hambone thinks the head is the best part when its aged 2 days in the dirt). Chest cavity is first to go.

***Note*** He doesn't kill everyday and doesn't kill for the fun of it...unless you count mice as kill everyday then he does...and still hasn't come down with worms).

Edited by Jo Harker (07/31/2009 09:08 AM)
Edit reason: added note

I don't have experience with any of the things you asked about EXCEPT tapeworm (which anyone who has ever had a flea infestation probably knows about).

Tapeworm can be treated with Drontal, which is quite expensive, and even my vet recommended not treating for it unless you see tapeworm segments in the dog's poo. Luckily, only one dose is needed (and it dissolves the worms so you don't see gross dead tapeworm poo..lol)

For other types of worms, I wouldn't wait to see them. It is possible to safely deworm a dog even if it has no signs of worms (for example, litters of puppies 2 weeks old).

Hope this helps!

http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/beaglehealth_canineintestinalworms.htm
Check out that link regarding rabbit tapeworms. I might consider treating prophylactically. Praziquantel...

edited again! That was not the rabbit tapeworm, sorry!

Here's a better link that lists life cycle and drugs to treat:

http://www.geocities.com/imetazoa/taenia.html?200931

 Quote: Lynne Barrows

Here's a better link that lists life cycle and drugs to treat:

Mmmm, I've gone through a few sites now with good info on life cycles and treatments, but I wasn't expecting the GIANT magnified photo at the top of that particular linked page! I consider myself a real nature lover, but... ew. Thanks for the links though Lynn.

So, sounds like Hambone's been lucky all these years - which is wonderful - but Angela, you might suggest a proactive general wormer (Panacur), now? Since that doesn't get all species of tapeworm, I should just be on the lookout and expect a possible second/different treatment...? And is Panacur something I can easily, safely obtain and dose myself, or do I really need to see the vet?

Another question, which I'm feeling like I answered already by posting the initial worried question: I actually collected the uneaten rabbit (front and back ends), because it was fresh, and I was having a crazy moment, and it's wrapped VERY well in our freezer... should I even entertain the idea of feeding the rest (if he's already ingested parasites, what's a few more? :crazy? Or just chuck it - he may have avoided bugs from the part he DID eat, and I don't want to push my luck? If I feed it should it stay frozen for a week or so beforehand (seems length of safe freeze time is linked to freezer temps...)?

You'd think a natural carnivore eating a little wild prey animal would be less worrisome than this...

~Natalya

Im confused. If prey model is feeding like ancestors, and it makes the dogs healthy and able to fend off parasites and such, shouldn't you believe that your dogs should be able to handle the occasional parasite ridden prey? Again, I am confused.

And, maybe Hambone has been lucky, maybe the dirt and certain plants he eats helps wipe out parasites...DE is dirt and some herbs are used to rid parasite.

I dunno.

I re-read it and I am going to let it stand with a caveat: I am NOT arguing against raw or pre-treating for parasites, or for not treating parasites, etc. I really am confused.

Edited by Jo Harker (07/31/2009 11:56 AM)
Edit reason: added last paragraph

Natalya, I'm pm'ing you. Panacur is safe, but you can't get it (brand name) except for horses, I don't think. In horse form, it's a paste which can be dangerous to dose. Anyway, I'll tell you what I've done in a PM b/c I don't trust the intelligence of a casual lurker who might misinterpret what I'm saying.

You kind of do have to wait until the worm is in a stage it can be killed. I honestly wouldn't worry about poor Bunny Foo Foo unless you see a problem w/Oscar. They are notorious for tapes b/c of the fleas. Fenbendazole (Panacur) is about the safest wormer around- even for pregnant/lactating females, so while it won't hurt, it won't do any good if the larvae is not in a stage to be killed.

 Quote: Jo Harker

Im confused. If prey model is feeding like ancestors, and it makes the dogs healthy and able to fend off parasites and such, shouldn't you believe that your dogs should be able to handle the occasional parasite ridden prey? Again, I am confused.

I'm not sure raw diets makes dogs less susceptible to worms and other parasites... if a dog is healthy, his immune system should be robust and better equipped to battle viruses and bacteria, but parasites are a little different. A healthy dog may be able to host a parasite without suffering lots of ill effects, whereas a sickly dog may be severely effected... but as far as latching on, I think even the healthiest individuals are at risk. Wolves often harbor tapeworms without many ill effects - they're just part of the worm's life cycle. Wild animals of all kinds also live much shorter lives, on average, than domestic pets, so there aren't the same long term effects to be considered.

Wile they may not kill my dog, worms are definitely not optimal, and some can be transmitted to humans (plus any infected animal just helps the little buggers proliferate and spread themselves around by excreting their eggs). Since they're relatively easy to get rid of, I'm just wondering whether it's better to wait until I KNOW the dog has them, or be overly cautious and do it now.

I totally understand the confusion though , and I wish it were simpler myself!

~Natalya

Thanks Jenni!

~Natalya

Totally understand. hambone gets his poop watched and tested 2x a yeara because he eats wild game. I just got confused with all the pros of raw feeding yet worrying, etc.

It does make sense that parasites are different than bacteria and virii.

Truly on the side of the dog for health and the owner for peace of mind...remember, I am the one that blends the THK into powder because I think the veggies are too big.