Hi all, I have some concerns about my Corgi's behavior. He is about two years old (will be 2 on Oct. 15), neutered male, Pembroke Welsh Corgi (pictured in my signature).

My concern is his playing behavior. He plays very rough and he loves to chase. In fact when any dog runs, whether it's after a ball or just running by, Conan will let out a strong bark or two and chase after them. He leaps at their shoulders and nips at the back of their legs. He generally has no interest in the dogs if they aren't running. He has shown very strong drives for food and toys, and strong prey or herding drive for anything that moves quickly, and I mostly feel that this is strong herding behavior for him, but sometimes I wonder that I'm in denial about something more serious.

He does like to play very rough, and I think some owners and even some dogs might be intimidated by it. Generally, when he runs after a dog and nips at its shoulders, one of a few things can happen:

The dog either ignores him and keeps running, the dog will turn around and wrestle with Conan and run off again, enjoying the chase itself. But sometimes dogs will turn around and nip back at him, in an aggressive way. We have had a few scuffles, but not what I would call "fights" because both dogs can be called away from each other without any physical intervention. I definitely know this could escalate into a fight, but we never let Conan play with dogs unsupervised for that reason.

I guess my question is this: is this typical herding behavior? Should I find ways to redirect it in a way that doesn't intimidate other dogs? We have no problem with him being possessive. He never tries to take the toy the other dog was chasing after, and he also isn't a champion fetcher. Once the moving object, be it dog or ball, stops moving, he generally loses interest. I assume because they aren't acting like prey anymore.

Or do you think he is actually being aggressive towards these dogs? Should we correct the behavior, and not allow him to chase? While I know the other dogs might be intimidated by his jumping at their shoulders, I have a hard time believing that dogs can misinterpret each other, so to speak. If they know Conan means no harm by his chasing, I don't necessarily think that they could mistake his energy for aggression. Does that make sense? I'm having trouble putting this into words.

On a side note, I have looked into herding classes because I think it's something he would very much enjoy, but I don't currently have the finances available to take him to classes consistently. I was considering lure coursing, as there is an all breed course not too far from us that meets once a month, but I don't know if that's a good idea or not.

Sorry for the length, and thanks again to anyone who has any ideas or suggestions!!

I personally would not let my dog do this. One of these days he is going to bite off more than he can chew, so to speak, and a dog is going to turn around and nail him. I know couple of my dogs would have no compunction about doing it.

My young bitch can be like this sometimes and I tamp down on it big time. Besides the fact that I consider it rude behavior on her part, it is not safe for a 30 pound dog to have Napoleonic Complex with dogs 3 times her size ;-)

Definately try out the herding and the lure coursing. Channel that energy into activities that you can do with him. A couple of my guys would LOVE to lure course. Herding is also a ton of fun. I am in the process of getting a set of ducks to herd with since it is a haul for me to get to a place where I have access to sheep these days.

Good luck!

Thanks! I was thinking the same thing, that he will bite off more than he can chew. It's always been my worry. I would have to drive far for sheep access to, as the closest places to me are for Border Collies only. I know many people drive further than two hours, but I'm still and college and working too so it would be very difficult for us to get out there during the week.

I'm glad you think lure coursing is a good idea. I think the group by me is one of the only all breed ones there are. It's also very cheap. I will definitely look more into it. Thanks again!

If this behavior continues it will just lead to trouble down the road. Most dogs veiw it as rude and many won't (and shouldn't be expected to) stand for it.

Herding behavior is just prey drive, so redirect it onto something acceptable like balls and tug - if he's got the drive I'm pretty sure with some work you can get him interested in those. YOu might look into squeaky toys like a Cuz toy as well. Lure coursing would probably be great for him.

If you've had scuffles, I would not be letting him play with dogs he doesn't know. It's just a matter of time until something major happens. Work with him with structured training and other activities (like lure coursing) instead

Thanks for the input. I don't like taking him to designated dog parks, but most of the regular parks and fields here are never empty. I will definitely start working with him with tugs and toys away from other dogs. Maybe if I feel I can keep him from chasing other dogs will I then take him out for a game of fetch or a run. Usually we do that and someone else comes along to play with their dog, and that's obviously when Conan will start chasing. If he does chase, I'll just take him back home. Do you think that would work okay? I won't be taking him out until I feel sure enough that I can get his attention refocused
on me 100% of the time. I thought of using an E Collar too, but was afraid that it might lower his drive if I correct him while chasing a dog. But I've never used one before, so I'm not sure if it's necessary or if it would be a benefit or not. Thanks again!

 Quote: Katie Finlay

Usually we do that and someone else comes along to play with their dog, and that's obviously when Conan will start chasing. If he does chase, I'll just take him back home.

Katie,

What you want to do is prevent your dog from practicing unwanted behavior. That means you want to make sure you don't let him engage in the chasing behavior, period. Once he's chasing, it's a self-rewarding behavior, and it will reinforce his doing it again. (Any behavior you allow is basically reinforcing the behavior. What you allow, you train, in other words.)

So, one thing to do would be to get a very long line (like 30-50 feet). Play with him while he's on that, and you then have the ability to prevent him from chasing. If anyone comes around with their dogs, leave, or go to another area where there aren't any dogs. Don't wait to find out if he's going to chase another dog. You already know he's going to do it, if the dog is running. Be vigilant, notice when other owners and their dogs are approaching, and leave/find another area in which to exercise and play.

I second the opinion that it's a great idea to find constructive ways to use his drives and energy. The lure coursing sounds great, especially since it's cheap

leih

I just wouldn't put the dog in the situation that triggers this behavior.

I have a female who does this very thing, and happens to be one of the most talented herding dogs I've known. I find it pretty irritating. Thing is, I couldn't begin to correct the behavior, once she's "turned on", she's too damn fast to catch and not afraid enough once in drive to "freeze" that I could issue a correction.

It's triggered by the other dog retreiving an item, which she herself has no interest in, except to nip at the other dog that retreived it. I'm fortunate the other dog is willing to tolerate it as much.

Though I've not tried an ecollar, but I would predict little success with one. I've seen too many dogs that persist through the pain, because the drive is great.

"Herding behavior is just prey drive"

Not to contradict that statement necessarily, but there are many "contexts" for expression of prey. If the dog sees tugs or balls as a lower value reward, it's less likely to help much when trying to redirect the behavior.

Thanks Leih, I see what you mean. That makes the most sense, but I'm obviously new to dog training and behavior. I really appreciate the input. I admit I was one of the many Americans who get dogs not knowing much about dogs and their behavior.

I think the long lead will be a good thing to have. The last time this happened (the chasing experience) I didn't see the dogs coming. In fact, the dogs were let out of the man's car off leash, before he was even ready to go himself. So from behind us came two Golden Retrievers. They were well behaved, luckily, but I don't know that I would ever let my dogs run out of the car unsupervised, off leash, especially in a non-enclosed area. I'll definitely be more aware of my surroundings after that. It's the first time I hadn't seen dogs/people coming. We sometimes let Conan off leash, but only if we are absolutely certain he'll keep his focus on us. As long as nothing is moving faster than the toy we have, he'll be fine. I still don't like that he's off leash in a generally unenclosed area, so we keep it to a minimum, and only after a very long, vigorous walk to tire him out. At the park we go to you can usually see people coming from far away, and I think a long lead would help prevent his chasing (so we can leave before it starts) and both have me feel a lot more comfortable having him run around. As he will be able to go far still, but not out of the range of our control.

Thanks to you too, Daryl. Conan is definitely doing what your gal is in the pictures (gorgeous Shepherds by the way). I was thinking about how I could correct him too if he was already in the act, as it does seem like they're unstoppable once turned on. I wondered that about the E Collar too, but since I've never used one I thought I'd ask first.

Will continue my search for herding and lure coursing. The lure coursing near me doesn't have their own field. They try to do events once a month, but sometimes are unable to get anywhere to hold them. Hopefully they find a permanent home soon, as I really think Conan would find it thrilling.

Thanks again for the help! I really, really appreciate it.

While herding drive is not identical to prey drive, it is closely related. Herding is like the hunting wild canid do; without the kill.

If you decide to get into herding DON'T start with ducks with this dog. There are different types of herding that dogs have been bred to do. I'm not speaking simply of the difference between cattle herding and sheep herding. Corgis were bred to chase cattle away from an area. The dog was used to chase other people cattle off the grazing area the dog's owner wanted his own cattle grazing on. They did this through nipping at the cattle's heels vigorously. This is very different from the type of herding Border collies and kelpies were bred for. Different from the sheep tending style herding of GSD's. And even somewhat different from other cattle dogs such as Australian cattle dogs and Queensland heelers.

If you were to start him on ducks his style would be a disaster. Lure coursing or competitive cattle herding would be better options.

Definitely stop the behavior with other dogs. One day a dog will likely retaliate violently. Even if that doesn't happen, he could do harm to a timid or fragile dog; or a dog's owner could misconstrue his actions and either turn him in as a vicious dog or try to get into an altercation with you.

And definitely avoid dog parks. Even for dogs without his strong herding drive, I would discourage frequenting them.

I wouldn't feel comfortable taking any dog to a dog park/beach. At the local dog beach, a smaller dog was literally torn to pieces by two other dogs there. I just refuse to put me or any of my animals or in that kind of situation. It scares me to death to see small children there (ie. under age 7) when I drive by. They could so easily be targeted by out of control dogs. Everyone I know thinks I'm overly cautious and uptight about it.

We are actually starting him in herding in two days! We go in for his instinct test Sunday morning at 9am and if he does well we will start the first lesson then. I am so excited! He will be working with sheep. I only found one cattle herding trainer but he only works with Border Collies. I have talked to the trainer we are going to a few times and am very confident with my choice in her. We won't know for sure until we start obviously, but I think it will work out very well.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice!