I am very new here and in breaking down all my questions, I could easily put my posts into several forums. I thought the general conversation would be a good place to start to give members an idea of what is going on.

Back in July last year, while I was walking my dog to the store, a small dog attacked (running at us, barking) Me and Cerberus. We had already passed the house where the dog lived, I saw the dog in the yard.

(See, that dog often was out roaming, so I always looked for it. Just the morning before, I saw the dog and put Cerberus in a sit, stay. A neighbor was leaving for work, I got his attention and asked if he could put the dog back in the yard so I could pass, he did. And we continued home.)

I have not taken Cerberus to a professional trainer, but when I got him, I read about the breeds. He was growing fast and I took every precaution I knew, I spent time training him, he walks with a loose leash, he does not even pay attention to dogs. He sits and stays when people pass.

In 8 years, I have never had a problem. But animal control said it was my fault. I did not have control of my dog on the leash. I felt terrible. A little girls pet died. Because I couldn't control my dog?

They told me he has a high prey drive, he is aggressive and dangerous. I felt I needed to some how take responsibility for my part in this. I asked myself what I needed to do to make sure it did not happen again.

I stopped walking my dog and began to pay a dog walker who could "control" my dog. I only let him be walked at night, when most dogs were inside. I even began to muzzle him. He was just mizzerable.

I wondered about his prey drive, he did like to hunt, he had killed many skunks, possums and mice. He would bravely kill a spider when he heard me screech, none of the lizards had tails in the yard. But I had walked him hundreds of times, he could have easily dragged me anywhere he wanted.

I contacted several trainers and wanted to have his temperament tested. Was he aggressive? I just did not see it. I did not feel he was aggressive and felt the entire situation was the unleashed dogs owner's fault. The trainers refused to work with him, due to his age, breed and because he had killed a dog.

So, from what I have shared so far, was my dog wrong for protecting me and himself? Was he the aggressor? Is my dog out of control?

Thank you for your thoughts.

You need to get rid of the "protecting you" idea. A common misconception but completely incorrect here.

He was exercising his prey drive with no deference at all to you.

How did this happen, exactly? Your dog was on a leash and a small dog ran up to him, barking? (By the way, this is not what I would call "attacked.") Then what? You were unable to control your dog physically or verbally?

I'll assume that you want to hear honest opinions.

.... animal control said it was my fault. I did not have control of my dog on the leash.

You didn't. If your dog was under your control, your dog would obey your command.

I just did not see it. I did not feel he was aggressive and felt the entire situation was the unleashed dogs owner's fault.

The unleashed dog's owner certainly was at fault for having zero control/containment, but you also had zero control, based on the outcome.

Is my dog out of control?

Yes. A dog under control is --- under control. YOU make the decisions -- not the dog. Your dog's decision (to attack/fight/kill) superseded yours. You did not have either physical or voice control of your dog.

What have you done since this happened? How are you working with the dog?



JMO.

 Quote: kimberley voyles

. . . Back in July last year, while I was walking my dog to the store, a small dog attacked. . .

I'm curious as to what exactly you've done in the last 14 months other than have someone else walk him.

 Quote: kimberley voyles

So, from what I have shared so far, was my dog wrong for protecting me and himself? Was he the aggressor? Is my dog out of control?

He didn't kill the other dog to "protect" you.
He may not have started the aggressive action, but you won't able to control him and prevent the fight.
Out of control? Totally!

 Quote: kimberley voyles

I spent time training him, he walks with a loose leash, he does not even pay attention to dogs. He sits and stays when people pass. In 8 years, I have never had a problem. But animal control said it was my fault.

Sounds like he must have a decent temperament 99% of the time, because I don't think you've ever been in control of him. But during that other 1% - when prey drive or aggression kicks in - you're screwed.
This is a great resource here for DVDs, podcasts, articles, etc., to learn about training and taking control, and to help you decide how much you think you're capable of doing yourself and when you need professional help - and what to look for in outside help.

Mike

 Quote: Kimberley Voyles

I have not taken Cerberus to a professional trainer, but when I got him, I read about the breeds.

Due respect, ma'am, but reading about, and getting professional instruction, are quite the opposite. I'd rather not attempt my own knee surgery, just because I read about it.

Your dog is a Pit Bull, no? Training a strong breed such as PB takes a great deal of skill. It sounds to me that you might have gotten in a bit o'er your head.

 Quote:

But animal control said it was my fault. I did not have control of my dog on the leash. I felt terrible. A little girls pet died. Because I couldn't control my dog?

Again, due respect, but yes, it was your fault that your dog killed another dog.

 Quote:

Was he aggressive? I just did not see it. I did not feel he was aggressive and felt the entire situation was the unleashed dogs owner's fault. The trainers refused to work with him, due to his age, breed and because he had killed a dog.

Not entirely the other dog owner's fault, ma'am. Some of your fault as well for not having your dog under control.

And the time to spend with professional trainers was about 7-7.5 years ago.

 Quote:

So, from what I have shared so far, was my dog wrong for protecting me and himself? Was he the aggressor? Is my dog out of control?

He wasn't protecting you. That's a common misconception, but it's still wrong.

"ATTACK" means any action by an animal which places a person in reasonable apprehension of immediate bodily harm. I chose to use the word attack based Calif. law's definition. The dog scared me, caught me off guard, I thought he was going to bite me or try to bite my dog.

I was walking my dog, I saw the dog and heard the dog in his yard barking. We were passed the dog's house. The barking was then getting closer as the dog was running up behind us. I yelled to the dog owner "Hey get your dog" Cerberus was on my left, I was looking over my right, sort of walking sideways turning to face the dog, and Cerberus took off, tripping me,dragged me only about 2 steps till the dog was in his reach.

I got the leash off my wrist and untangled myself from the leash, went to Cerberus and grabbed him by the back of the harness and told him to "let go". I had to tell him twice to "let go" he did and the dog ran back to it's owner's who were outside.

I took Cerberus home and secured him in the house and went back to check on the dog. I offered to give them a ride to the vet, but the dog died.

 Quote: connie sutherland

You need to get rid of the "protecting you" idea. A common misconception but completely incorrect here.

How did this happen, exactly? Your dog was on a leash and a small dog ran up to him, barking? (By the way, this is not what I would call "attacked.") Then what? You were unable to control your dog physically or verbally?

physically, I had lost footing and fell down. I yelled "Cerberus NO" it happened very quickly, it was not like my dog had to chase the small dog around to get it. It was right there. When I went to my dog and told him to put it down, he did (had to tell him two times)

yes, thank you Connie. I do want honest opinions. I think that is the only way to correct what went wrong and change it.

I guess one of the things that are bothering me is that for years that I have owned the dog, I felt I had control over the dog.

I trained him to sit when, stay, sit when I stop, not to pull on the leash..

I did not train him with such distractions I simply watched for them and avoided them.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I'll assume that you want to hear honest opinions.

.... animal control said it was my fault. I did not have control of my dog on the leash.

You didn't. If your dog was under your control, your dog would obey your command.

I just did not see it. I did not feel he was aggressive and felt the entire situation was the unleashed dogs owner's fault.

The unleashed dog's owner certainly was at fault for having zero control/containment, but you also had zero control, based on the outcome.

Is my dog out of control?

Yes. A dog under control is --- under control. YOU make the decisions -- not the dog. Your dog's decision (to attack/fight/kill) superseded yours. You did not have either physical or voice control of your dog.



JMO.

I know that we are all very sorry this happened to you.

But the responses here remain accurate: Your dog decided to attack; you did not make that decision. Your dog was able to inflict mortal injuries before he responded to your commands. He dragged you (two steps, twenty steps, not really relevant).

I think that the harsh honesty in the responses comes about because we perceive that you considered your dog's actions as protective of you, and they were not. This is terribly common, and it colors way too many POVs of what really went down in a handler-error situation. Also, while the other owner was definitely at fault for having an uncontrolled dog (and we stated this), so were you.

Think of that other dog being on a leash and still behaving the same way (that is, not under the owner's control, leashed or not). The outcome probably would have been the same.

What I'm trying to say is that we owners have a permanent 100% responsibility to be in control of our dogs. And never should our dogs make decisions and execute them despite our commands to the contrary.

 Quote: Kimberley Voyles

... I did not train him with such distractions I simply watched for them and avoided them. ...

That was a major error. In addition, you obviously spent seven years with the dog perceiving himself as the de facto pack leader; if he saw you as solidly in that position, he would have followed your commands.