I had my vet tell me that my doberman pup (12months) lost weight because of an allergy or inability to process raw foods this sounds like a load of crap to me. how could he be allergic to all food that's not cooked, she said some dogs do fine on raw and some don't. I was wondering if anybody has had this problem, i figured it might be some aspect of the raw diet (i.e i was feeding him more beef than i used to maybe he doesn't precess that well?) i was feeding him Honest Kitchen - preference and feeding him chicken backs and stewing beef depending on what the local store had in stock. I put him back on Orijen puppy large breed formula, he seems to be putting weight back on, but i would like to but him back on the raw if possible.

If anybody has any information or experience with this problem, any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Rob Kirkwood

What was the problem? He lost weight?

Was there diarrhea? Any skin, ear, or eye problems?

Ditto with Michael. It sounded like the only "symptom" was weight?

So far, from what you have said you were told, I too subscribe to the "load of crap" theory. There are a lot of LOC theories about raw feeding.

Food allergies do not present in the way you describe. "Inability to process all raw foods" is a new one on me.... and I do a ton of reading and research on the topic (both canine nutrition and allergies).

One more raw feeder here in agreement. Unless the pup was exhibiting other symptoms that you don't mention, the easy solution to putting weight on a dog on a raw diet is to feed more. During their first year, puppies have extraordinarily high metabolisms. Tell us--how much raw food were you feeding, in ounces, per day.

DITTO on all of the posts above. My dogs were weaned onto raw from their breeders & I have never had any issues with feeding pups raw. As mentioned, you do need to increase food amounts as pups grow a great deal over the 1st year & do have very high metabolisms that go thru large amounts of food. My male looked like a skinny coyote at a year old. I do keep my dogs on the thin side, but he looked like a didn't feed him. I fed him 2x what my female was eating & he still ran it off & just metabolised it away. He hardly every sits still! I feed pups 3x or 4x a day until 6 months & pups 1 yr & over & adults 2x a day. I personally don't like to feed huge amounts of food in one meal. Your vet just doesn't understand raw feeding & is just one of those vets that blames everything on raw once they know that you feed that way. One other thought though is a dog that has an iussue with enzyme difficenties. But that is more commnon in GSDs. But I doubt that he would be putting on weight back on the kibble if that were the case. Just up his raw food gradually to a higher amount. There are dogs that are allergic to certain meats, but it is rare & is usually chicken in most cases. Just some thoughts.

Thanks for everybody's help and input. To answer the questions;

1. the only symptom was weight, and he appeared very skinny. Other than that he is energetic and very driven, and his stool looked healthy.

2. i was feeding him the Honest Kitchen - Preference and feeding as the box recommended and then started to increase the amount as seemed to be needing it. the box called for two cups of meat per day and one cup of preference. I ended up giving him that per meal (2 times a day)(and not sure how many ounces I'll check when i go to the grocery store) plus a lot of food in marker training about 3 times a day.

My trainer whom also feeds his pup a raw diet, suggested that i add Oats and rice to his meals for complex carbs and his dog looks really healthy. any thoughts on that?

I am going to start making the Carb mix i have a lot of questions on that but that's probably a subject for another post.

Thanks again for all the help,

Rob Kirkwood

 Quote: robert kirkwood

.... My trainer whom also feeds his pup a raw diet, suggested that i add Oats and rice to his meals for complex carbs and his dog looks really healthy. any thoughts on that?

My opinion is that his dog looks healthy because he is on a raw diet, and even with unnecessary and unsuitable addition of grain, a raw diet is good for the dog. Despite the unsuitable carbs added, a scavenger can get along pretty well on a fresh raw diet because of the "fresh raw" part.

In other words, his dog looks healthy in spite of the grains, and not because of them.

There is no known requirement for complex carbs (or refined carbs) for dogs. Grains are added to (and sometimes make up) commercial foods for cheap-filler reasons and because the kibble process needs them.

Dogs do not process grains well. Dogs do not even have the enzymes in their saliva (like amylase) that we have that starts the digestion of carbs for us. The unnatural production of grain-digesting enzymes to deal with significant daily grains is a pancreas stressor to a dog.

(Dogs use fat in much the way that humans use complex carbs.)

Let us know the details of amount in THK and RMBs (and what the RMBs were) that you were feeding and the dog's weight.

Dogs don't need carbs (grain)in their diet. Many dogs develope allergies when grain is in their diets. Although many of the higher end kibbles have rice or oats or barley in them. Corn, wheat & soy being the worst for allergies. I would just increase his food gradually to put a bit more weight on him. As I said, my male looked like a skinny coyote when he was a year old & getting a ton of food. By the time he was a little over 2 he finally looked more normal weight-wise. They are growing pretty quickly up to a year old & the weight redistibutes to accomidate that increase in height, length etc so they kind of thin out. As the growth slows down that allows them to increase their weight. You don't want alot of weight on a young growing dog's skelletel system anyway. That's too much stress on their joints.

EATA...OOPS...Connie & I were posting at the same time with some of the same info.

There is no known minimum dietary carbohydrate requirement for either the dog or the cat. ... The Waltham Book of Dog and Cat Nutrition

Dogs and cats have no dietary requirement for carbohydrates ... Catherine O'Driscoll in "Your Dog's Health" at http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/vaccines/basicfacts.html

Dogs and cats have no dietary requirement for grains ... they are NOT part of the natural diet of wild dogs and cats ... in The Whole Dog at http://www.thewholedog.org/id34.html
(This has a nice overview of why humans sometimes make the mistake of thinking that dogs need grains.)

Again, scavengers like dogs can eat many foods and get along fine. They can survive on diets that they are not designed to eat. Some grain every now and then, or grain in small amounts, probably does them no harm (unless they have a grain allergy, which, unfortunately, is pretty common).

But to deliberately include significant grain amounts in the daily diet goes against the basic tenets of canine nutrition.

Yeah i had my doubts about adding rice and oats.

Anne i'm glad to hear that your dog ended up filling out, as mine looks really skinny and he is a year old exactly, i guess he may just be a skinny pup and he is growing fast.

as for the amount of meat i've been feeding its been about just over 1bs or 17-18oz of chicken backs per meal twice a day, so 36oz total per day. the honest kitchen box told me to feed 2 cups of meat and one cup of preference and i seemed to be going way beyond that.

thanks again for everyone's help and advice.

Rob Kirkwood