the 8 month old puppy I have keeps grabbing my older dog's collar and pulls her around by it. I was keeping a short lead on the dog's for some training, but the puppy continues to pull the other dog around.
The trainer suggested putting some pennies in a plastic bottle and tossing it toward the dog, this really scares Thora as well as the puppy. Puppy runs over and tries to pick up the bottle.

I am not sure how to go about fixing this. A firm "no" does nothing, I get up and go to them, I remove his mouth with my hand and say "no" he nips at me.

Thanks.

 Quote: kimberley voyles

the 8 month old puppy I have keeps grabbing my older dog's collar and pulls her around by it. I was keeping a short lead on the dog's for some training, but the puppy continues to pull the other dog around.
The trainer suggested putting some pennies in a plastic bottle and tossing it toward the dog, this really scares Thora as well as the puppy. Puppy runs over and tries to pick up the bottle.

I am not sure how to go about fixing this. A firm "no" does nothing, I get up and go to them, I remove his mouth with my hand and say "no" he nips at me.

Thanks.

Kimberley, I am reading more than one problem here, but I'll address the one you posted about: Don't let the puppy do this. How can he do it on a short lead?

you're lucky the older dog tolerates this nonsense fr an 8 month old.

with that said, i'm w/connie: how can the pup do this while on a short lead? or do you mean a drag-line lead? and on which dog, or both?

IMO, keeping the pup on at least a drag-line, if not tethered to you physically if both are out at the same time, will help you prevent this situation. your older dog should not be subjected to/expected to tolerate this fr an 8 mo old. kudos to her (?) for doing so!!

and, if a pup of mine took a "nip" at me b/c it didn't want to release in this sort of situation, well, the pup would end up with a bad headache...but that's just me.

I'm not a fan of shaker cans and the other scare devices. Soak the other dog's collar in bitter apple, black pepper and dawn dish soap, or some other nasty tasting stuff. You need to make this kind of interaction non rewarding in some way.

How about a hardcore spiked collar - like the ones the real flock protectors wear!

Definitely have multiple problems there, but if you needed a quick fix for that one particular problem - you need to use a proper "dog god" correction. which means something that the dog doesnt asociate with you - so she wont do it even if you are present.

The next thing you want to consider is that you do not want the young dog to asociate whatever that correction is with the older dog - just the collar.

I would start by just leaving your older dogs collar on the ground with the pup in a pretty vacant room so it becomes the most inviting thing - or otherwize bait it another way.

I generally like to start off with remote citronella collars for this type of thing. The instant the pup mouths it - say nothing act like you are reading a book or something and startle with the citronella.

then, you repeat when the collar is on the older dog (citronella collar on the pup).

drawbacks you might run into - is that some dogs just really dont care about the citronella corrections and/or the older dog might get startled by it too.

The other option if you are very careful and work supervised with an experienced trainer is to use a dogra collar to do the same drill. these are the gentlest electric collars i know of.

you would do the same drill, but you ONLY use the 'nick' button. you pulse it at a fast rate at the lowest level (these have a dial that goes from 1-100 or 1-127 depending on model) then slowly increase the dial as you pulsate until the dog notices something ANNOYING not PAINFUL. you stop when the dog disengages. if you work with a trainer who is experienced using these and start at a low level you will be surprised how gentle and how unstressful it is compared to other less controlled corrections. Most the time the levels that will work are barely detectable on our fingertips. I place the collars at a slight angle on the underside of the dogs neck and tight so that it lays on the large muscle underneath NOT the trachea. this involuntarily twiches the muscle and really just confuses and annoys the dog. without joking i would say try it to yourself first to build your confidence as to what your dog is feeling - i make all my clients do it.

when this is working dont leave your dogs unsupervised and the pup without the collar for at least a month since the last time you saw the behavior. This WILL stop the behavior.

but, it is very very important that you work with a trainer on this who has experience. the biggest problem with remote collars is that if you dont use them just right you can cause more problems than you were trying to fix. It is kind of like a scapel blade that if used precisely can fix little problems well - but if used sloppily can be disasterous! I think Ed sells the dogtras - not sure have to check?

Also be sure to check out some of his literature or videos on being your dogs leader - before picking apart any nippiness toward yourself.

oh, one more thing, if you do get a dogtra dont get zap happy if that one things works, you really have to use those precisely and one thing at a time with guidance.

hope this at least opens other options so you dont revert to losing your temper. whatever you do be sure to not do anything they you feel in your heart is disrespectful to your dog - you will find an answer with patience.

Kimberly,
Does the 8 month old dog know what the word 'no' means?

Does he obey the command at all others times or hardly ever?

Randy

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: kimberley voyles

the 8 month old puppy I have keeps grabbing my older dog's collar and pulls her around by it. I was keeping a short lead on the dog's for some training, but the puppy continues to pull the other dog around.
The trainer suggested putting some pennies in a plastic bottle and tossing it toward the dog, this really scares Thora as well as the puppy. Puppy runs over and tries to pick up the bottle.

I am not sure how to go about fixing this. A firm "no" does nothing, I get up and go to them, I remove his mouth with my hand and say "no" he nips at me.

Thanks.

Kimberley, I am reading more than one problem here, but I'll address the one you posted about: Don't let the puppy do this. How can he do it on a short lead?

sorry, I am still learning, drag line is what I meant. (short leash I can grab)

 Quote: ann freier

you're lucky the older dog tolerates this nonsense fr an 8 month old.

with that said, i'm w/connie: how can the pup do this while on a short lead? or do you mean a drag-line lead? and on which dog, or both?

IMO, keeping the pup on at least a drag-line, if not tethered to you physically if both are out at the same time, will help you prevent this situation. your older dog should not be subjected to/expected to tolerate this fr an 8 mo old. kudos to her (?) for doing so!!

and, if a pup of mine took a "nip" at me b/c it didn't want to release in this sort of situation, well, the pup would end up with a bad headache...but that's just me.

both dogs follow me from room to room in the house, I have now been taking Thora's collar off in the house. (not sure if I should have, but figured it's best to make the opportunity less available for Thora's sake till I can teach Tantrum not to do this) so, none are wearing the short leash now.
this behavior is happening in the yard when they are out to poddy, or playing in the yard, also when coming in from a walk, when the puppy is excited.

 Quote: Melissa Thom

I'm not a fan of shaker cans and the other scare devices. Soak the other dog's collar in bitter apple, black pepper and dawn dish soap, or some other nasty tasting stuff. You need to make this kind of interaction non rewarding in some way.

so, in making him not want to pull the collar, it will fix the other problem of correcting him and nipping at me?

(multi level problem)

I have more homework to do as I need to look up exactly what the collars you are suggesting do so I know the difference.

Is a hardcore spiked collar different from some other spiked collar?

As soon as he grabs Thora's collar, I say, "Tantrum, NO!," When he does not respond, I remove his mouth with my hand, saying "No!" (I am saying other stuff too, as I talk to the dogs like people, so I am saying, "don't do that, let go of Thora's collar..)

If he does not try to re bite the collar I tell him he's a good boy, if he nips at me, I give a correction on his prong and tell him "no biting!"

I have been reading and working on the pack structure, (and I have a feeling that is one of the "multiple" problems being mentioned but not discussed in staying on topic?)

 Quote: mike d'abruzzo

How about a hardcore spiked collar - like the ones the real flock protectors wear!

Definitely have multiple problems there, but if you needed a quick fix for that one particular problem - you need to use a proper "dog god" correction. which means something that the dog doesnt asociate with you - so she wont do it even if you are present.

The next thing you want to consider is that you do not want the young dog to asociate whatever that correction is with the older dog - just the collar.

I would start by just leaving your older dogs collar on the ground with the pup in a pretty vacant room so it becomes the most inviting thing - or otherwize bait it another way.

I generally like to start off with remote citronella collars for this type of thing. The instant the pup mouths it - say nothing act like you are reading a book or something and startle with the citronella.

then, you repeat when the collar is on the older dog (citronella collar on the pup).

drawbacks you might run into - is that some dogs just really dont care about the citronella corrections and/or the older dog might get startled by it too.

The other option if you are very careful and work supervised with an experienced trainer is to use a dogra collar to do the same drill. these are the gentlest electric collars i know of.

you would do the same drill, but you ONLY use the 'nick' button. you pulse it at a fast rate at the lowest level (these have a dial that goes from 1-100 or 1-127 depending on model) then slowly increase the dial as you pulsate until the dog notices something ANNOYING not PAINFUL. you stop when the dog disengages. if you work with a trainer who is experienced using these and start at a low level you will be surprised how gentle and how unstressful it is compared to other less controlled corrections. Most the time the levels that will work are barely detectable on our fingertips. I place the collars at a slight angle on the underside of the dogs neck and tight so that it lays on the large muscle underneath NOT the trachea. this involuntarily twiches the muscle and really just confuses and annoys the dog. without joking i would say try it to yourself first to build your confidence as to what your dog is feeling - i make all my clients do it.

when this is working dont leave your dogs unsupervised and the pup without the collar for at least a month since the last time you saw the behavior. This WILL stop the behavior.

but, it is very very important that you work with a trainer on this who has experience. the biggest problem with remote collars is that if you dont use them just right you can cause more problems than you were trying to fix. It is kind of like a scapel blade that if used precisely can fix little problems well - but if used sloppily can be disasterous! I think Ed sells the dogtras - not sure have to check?

Also be sure to check out some of his literature or videos on being your dogs leader - before picking apart any nippiness toward yourself.

oh, one more thing, if you do get a dogtra dont get zap happy if that one things works, you really have to use those precisely and one thing at a time with guidance.

hope this at least opens other options so you dont revert to losing your temper. whatever you do be sure to not do anything they you feel in your heart is disrespectful to your dog - you will find an answer with patience.