Has anyone ever come across a breeder that refused to sell an intact pup? I really can't wrap my mind around anyone doing this, and don't know what to say. These people are altering 8 WEEK old pups! I was impressed by the parents and bloodlines, but can't get past the insanity of it all. Needless to say, won't be going there.

Yes. I would in fact be one of those breeders unless someone can give me an awesome, amazing, exceptional reason why they need an intact dog, even then I would likely refuse to the average pet owner, since there are spay and other procedures that will leave a dog in a sense fully intact as far as hormones but without the ability to reproduce. While GSDs aren't what I'm selling in my eyes I'm looking out for the best interests of my dogs by doing this, it's safer than withholding papers.

There are a few reasons for this. Small dogs are a premium item, intact small dogs even more so. They are used to make mutts that fetch as high or even higher a price than the purebred dog they started with. Often these mutts are riddled with disease and hereditary defects. A life as a breeding machine is no life for any dog.

Second is a prospect called paper hanging. Basically I buy said dog from reputable breeder #1 with limited registration, I then buy dog from BYB #2 on full registration. I then switch papers on the dogs, akc is non the wiser because the BYB is likely to never produce enough litters with their boy to require a DNA verification. So I've essentially stolen a top quality bloodline at pet market prices to become a puppy mill dog.

I don't alter puppies at 8 weeks old. I do have the appointment made however with my vet when puppies leave my home at 12 weeks. My puppies are also microchipped before leaving as well and pre registered with AKC with their microchip data. I am also the one who pays for altering rather than the buyer. My vet verifies the microchip number and sends me a certificate of sterilization when this is done.

This isn't to say if someone came to me and asked to buy an intact dog would have the door shut in their face. I just don't offer it as an option to the average pet owner, well because dog breeding shouldn't be an average event. It should be researched, planned, and done with the utmost of responsibility in mind. If someone comes to me with a plan in mind, has done the research, and references check out I would consider it. I would rather them buy from me or someone I know rather than the people who would just hand you a puppy and papers no questions asked.

I would never buy an altered puppy. I firmly believe that dogs need all the hormones for proper muscular skeletal development. I wouldn't fix a male much under two or a female til after the second full heat cycle.

I agree completely with Dennis and would be looking for a different breeder.

It is common in rescues. I had to have a litter done in order to be able to place them in homes. You just can't trust people to be true to their word.

There are also guide dog schools that neuter at 8 weeks.

If I were a breeder producing non-breeding animals, I would take a long hard look at things like vasectomies so that the dog could still mature but not reproduce.

It can cause problems, especially in females. However, for one reason or another the breeder decided the benefits outweigh the risks.

Take a look at the Kijiji classified site under pets wanted. You will be sick to see all the "boy/girlfriend wanted for my dog!" ads. Almost all the ads are for dogs 1 year of age or less who have started humping things so therefore need to be bred. Or their dog is pretty and they want it to have babies. The ads request you send photos (NOT registration, temperament info or health clearances) of your potential suitor. Most do not even know how to spell their dog's breed correctly. I guess this particular breeder did not want this to happen to their dogs.

There is absolutely no way you can really enforce a spay/neuter contract, and the breeder knows this, so I guess this breeder is determined to guarantee the pups don't reproduce. It would be awesome if some other form of sterilization were available or used.

I don't know the breeder or even what breed of dog this is, but if pups are being sold for work then I guess I agree they should be left intact.

My breeder actually required that I DO NOT neuter my dog until after 1 year of age. She was even happier when we told her it would be at least after 2 years of age because we agreed with her opinion. We have a limited registration - meaning if we were to use our pup as a stud, the offspring would not be registerable with the AKC. Now, that means nothing to us because we don't plan on breeding anyway.

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There are also guide dog schools that neuter at 8 weeks.

Which ones?

I believe it was Canine Companions for Independence that started waiting until their dogs were fully mature to s/n after realizing that early s/n significantly increased the drop out rate for their dogs.

WHY would a vet not suggest a vasectomy over castration??? If I had heard of this option,it would have been a no-brainer! I still regret neutering Falcon and would have really liked being told this option was available... I may have to call my vet tomorrow and ask if so - why was I not informed?

 Quote: Barbara Schuler

WHY would a vet not suggest a vasectomy over castration??? If I had heard of this option,it would have been a no-brainer! I still regret neutering Falcon and would have really liked being told this option was available... I may have to call my vet tomorrow and ask if so - why was I not informed?

A vas is a alot more difficult then a simple castration also a vas is not guaranteed to work. I know from first hand experience . Also ppl get the spay nueter to avoid behavior issues they don't want to deal with.

 Quote: barbara schuler

WHY would a vet not suggest a vasectomy over castration??? If I had heard of this option,it would have been a no-brainer! I still regret neutering Falcon and would have really liked being told this option was available... I may have to call my vet tomorrow and ask if so - why was I not informed?

It's not exactly a common procedure for male dogs compared to the normal castration. It's one of those things you just have to ask for. To quote my favorite pretend doctor "Tell a surgeon it's okay to cut a leg off and he's going to spend the night polishing his good hacksaw.... they care about their patients. They just care about themselves more. Which is not an unreasonable position. Trying to maximize the tissue you save also maximizes the chances of something going wrong. Which means you've gotta be extra careful. Which is such a pain in the ass."

The average vet deals with pet owners. Not working dogs, not sporting dogs, and not someone who does research. Most of them are pet owners themselves, few if any serious dog breeders and owners become vets, fewer yet have the real experience needed to make suggestions to people with working dogs. When you're interviewing vets and ask them what their dog experience is it shouldn't begin and end with vet school.

The only reason I know about partial spays and vasectomies is that one of the local wolf rescues does it to their residents to allow them to live as normal a life as possible.