Hey gals and guys,

My dog is scared of the whip. She had a very bad incident when she was young involving the helper. I know I can fix it, but should I ? If I fix the problem, the whip will become a nutral stimulus. I know it can then be changed again by the helper. This is my current plan. OR.. I could just let the helper desensitize her. With her past, I think she will either avoid (more likely) or go right into defence if the helper does it himself.

I remember the very first time she heard the whip at 5months while they were working another dog. I was walking her on leash, she turned, lunged forward and let out the nastiest bark she ever had at the helper 50 yards away. Now, obviously, its a different story. I would like her previous attitude back.

Like I said, my plan is to make the whip nutral. Then have the helper change it to something else. (I havn't decided the "something else" yet). The helper now, is not the same as before, and I completely trust him not to push her too hard. I was just looking to get other opinions before I start. Thanks.

Originally posted by jeff predmore:


My dog is scared of the whip. She had a very bad incident when she was young involving the helper.
Jeff,
What exactly happened to Kallie? (sp)It will help all of us know what you are dealing with.

Another thought I had is to just NOT use the whip in training?? I had a dog that would get all geeked out with the whip and go into overload so we just didn't use it in training. It's never used in a trial so ............

Is she ok for gunfire? Or does she think whip when she hears it?

I agree with Cindy. It's not in a trial and you wont have to worry unless she associates the whip noise with the same as a gunshot. If this is a problem you could desensitize her to gunfire.
I say don't use it.
I have also heard well known trainers and helpers refer to the whip as a lazy helpers tool.

I've got one that also had a VERY bad experience with the whip (an accidental hit directly on the nuts, full strength... you guys cringing yet??). I simply don't use it anymore with him. Not sure I would ever have been able to convince him that the whip was safe after that, and decided I didn't need to. I don't agree that the whip is a lazy man's tool - it can be an excellent tool, but a lot of helpers don't understand it's use. But some things just aren't worth spending tons of time on and this was one of them.

Well I guess I'll let you know what happened. When Kallie was 5.5 or 6 months, she was tied to a fence with a 1.5-2ft chain while a SchH 2 dog right next to her was worked (and whipped, literally). Kallie got out of her collar and snaked her way over to me. We are now at a different club, and I am much wiser.

I have thought of not doing anything like you both have suggested, but I consider her whip fear a weakness that is my fault. Now I need to fix it regardless of weather its used on the Schutzhund field. She is not scared of gun fire, fireworks ect.. I think she is more scared of the arm motion and getting hit. Thats why she had stick problems (which she now doesn't). Kallie and I have a good relationship, and I know I can work her through it without too much stress, so I feel I owe it to her to do so.

I have also heard of the whip as the "lazy" trainers tool, but I think it can be useful when used properly. Thanks, and still let me know what you guys think.

Hi Jeff

Well if the dog is not scared of the stick, take the whip and fold the whip up and hold it like a stick, then work the dog on the arm with the helper having the folded whip in his free hand, let him stroke the dog on the bite with the folded whip, if she comes off, try and do this intermediately with ever agitation,

It worked for a dog that I had to fix, if the dog gets accustomed to the folded whip, make it less compact by letting a piece stick out, and make it longer and longer as her nerves / tolerance increase

Good luck

Sadly, the helper that did this to Jeff's dog is *famous* for ruining young dogs. Hence all the smart people in my area train at a different club. Please remember that this was literally Jeff's first experience with SchH, and it was definately *not* his fault. He now trains at a better club, to be sure.

Well Jeff, I'd go back to the advice of Bernhard from the New Mexico seminar. The helper works the dog on the sleeve and literally strokes the dog with a soft stick or whip in a non threatening manner, especially bringing the stick over the back and head of the dog, to de-sensitize the animal to the stimuli. I've seen this tech. work many times in the past, but it tends to take a long time and many repetitions to overcome the original bad stimulus.

I'm also going to agree with Lee here. Your whips belong in that *special* suitcase that you keep hidden under your bed and brought out only for certain evenings, not on the SchH field.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Will, you are so naughty...

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

All right, you havn't talked me out of it yet, but I will consider it. Will, as far as Bernhard's method, thats what Tracy has done with the stick. Believe it or not, it only took about 3 times. She now gets full hits, Tracy says she doesn't even blink. I just don't like her aprehension toward anything, so I wanted to cure her of the whip fear (Kallie does sleep in our room after all... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ).