I've heard many different theories on this. Here is my own story.

Our little HB is quite house-trained. She can hold it for a good 8 - 9 hours.

But we've noticed that sometimes when we are doing something in the house (say dinner) and we ignore her, she'll try to get our attention. It usually starts with the usual barking and whining. Then it will escalate the tearing up things in a garbage can. Finally, if we continue to ignore her, she'll pee on this one rug at the end of the hall (away from our view).

Now .. my feeling is that she doesn't just "get mad" and pee around us because I would .. um .. correct for that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The pee is not excitement pee. And I'm also quite sure its not "nature's call" pee. This leaves me with the elusive "spite-pee" (something that some trainers don't even believe in).

It almost seems like her way of signing her complaint letter.

Has anyone see this before - and/or found a way to correct this?

I don't have one of my fancy web cams in the hallway (otherwise I would just catch her and correct her). But I can easily install one there.

What is the best way to solve this? Correction (we just scruff shake)? Give into her whining (a little)? Just crate her when she starts whining for attention? Put her outside?

Any suggestions or insights?
Thanks!
David C

maybe all that whining and getting worked up is making her have to "go" off schedule. I know if I play heavily with my puppy she will take a break to pee even though she doesn't normally go at that time. Matter of fact she did that tonight after my kids were playing fetch with her in the house. She went to the far end of the room and peed on the carpet "mid-play". Since I was supervising the activity, I was able to interuppt her and take her out.
I would try crating your puppy, and totally ignore it when you know you can't attend to it. Even if you yell at it or tell it no, you are still giving it attention. Good or bad, the pup still sees it as attention either way.
Another thing you can try is to put it on a leash and step on the leash while the pup is in a down under the table. That way the pup is close by you so that you can watch it, and it might not get all worked up if it's right there at your feet. The first few times the pup will probablly want to get up to play or walk around ,but after it realizes it can't go anywhere, it should settle down. Try giving it something to do , like it's favorite chew toy, while it waits for the family to finish dinner or watching t.v. etc...

A couple of thoughts.

1) How do you know she's not trying to get your attention because she has to pee?

2) Does she get your attention when she pees in the house?

well, if somebody told me i had to "hold it" for 8 or 9 hours......i'd definately have an "accident!" i think she's trying to get your attention for a very legit reason.

Not a chance ..

First of all - When I said she can hold it for 8 - 9 hours, I mean just that. The CAN but we certainly don't make her. We know she can because she's crated at night-time. And on rare occasions we are out of the house for that long (visiting family for instance). She's in the house un-crated with no accidents.

When we eat dinner, she usually just came back from being outside. She knows to do her business outside (she pees on command). But when she is brought back inside and we begin to ignore her yelping for attention, she sometimes (not all the time) leaves a small mark on that same rug away from out view.

Now there is another clue here. The pee mark is NOT a large puddle. Its usually a small - tiny spot. If she were holding it for a really long time and had to just "let-go" this would be a lot larger. Besides, she would go to the door to bark if that was the case (never happens in these cases).

No .. I'm quite sure in this instance is not "nature's calling" pee. And I'm not sure what it is. All I can do it try to put together the evidence.

She's a really nice pup - and despite this small failing we love her dearly. But her breed is prone demand barking (emphasis on barking - she's a Finnish Spitz <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ). I haven't corrected her, since I haven't caught her.

Any other thoughts?
DHC

Incidentely Lisa Swanston,

Just to answer your questions:

1. Nah (as stated) .. she goes to the door and barks when she needs to be let out. This is not the case when we are ignoring her (don't want to promote barking around the dinner table).

2. Nah .. she doesn't get our attention (good or bad) for peeing. The primary reason is that the rug is nowhere near the kitchen. We find it after dinner (long after the deed is done). And since we don't correct if its not caught red-handed; she gets no reaction from this.

PS - she's a bit of a princess (a bit bratty)

- DHC

Hi David:

Just a couple of thoughts:

1) Have you had her checked out for urinary track infections? There are a couple of other things that can cause dribbling especially when the dog gets excited.

2) You might want to get rid of the rug at least for a while and have it really well cleaned to get rid of the smells. I understand not correcting her if you don't catch her in the act, however, because she isn't being corrected she may think that this rug can be safely dribbled on.

3) Crating her during dinner might not be a bad idea...

Good luck

we've noticed that sometimes when we are doing something in the house (say dinner) and we ignore her, she'll try to get our attention. It usually starts with the usual barking and whining. Then it will escalate the tearing up things in a garbage can. Finally, if we continue to ignore her, she'll pee on this one rug at the end of the hall (away from our view). The fact that she is tearing up things in the garbage indicates to me that she is getting stressed and frustrated. Some dogs relieve themselves when stressed and frustrated. It's not spite, just her way to relieve stress.

She has found a spot to relieve stress inside the house that she considers safe. As suggested above, I would remove the carpet and have it cleaned properly. Use enzymes if you need to.

Why not just crate her with a nice bone during dinner or when you are otherwise engaged??

Natalie
http://alikamalinois.tripod.com

I've too have found tinkle spots in my house from my 5 mo. old GSD. I'm not sure if it is done out of spite or not. I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to use some reverse psychology on my dog and start peeing on his stuff and see how he likes it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

John ..

Although that's hilarious and highly tempting .. I think my wife would kill me.

Score 1 Finkie then.

But please please let us know you that works out for you!!

Natalie ..

Yup - we removed the carpet. Hopefully that'll help a bit. Hmm .. I can see that it might not be "spite" per se. "Spite" meaning "I hate you - Spite" .. but I was thinking more like "I can't get my way - Spite".

I can crate her .. but I'd like her to get over it (that we will do things and she can't necessarily always be involved). Its okay .. a little pee for a little while longer isn't going to kill me. I guess we can just wait to see how this plays out.