Hi Leerburg!
I'm back again for some advice. First let me say thank you,
I can't say it enough, you have helped me graduate from a
complete doggy-dipstick to somebody who is making progress
with the pup in question!

Well, to begin with I have been letting my pup play with
a submissive but playful retriever for a couple of weeks.
Sort of as an experiment, plus a chance for him to have
a good experience with another dog (he is doggy...but all
the other dogs we come across seem to be assholes).

They wrestle and play and generally have a good time. However,
my puppy wants to hump this dog. The owner tells us that
every dog wants to hump him, including puppies. I gather
from posts here that I should control whether or not my dog
humps whom and what...I had been trying to use an 'OFF'
command, followed about 1 second later by a leash yank.
Buuuut I have a feisty brat and he just grabs on (say, to
an ear) to wait out any resistance. I never let him
succeed at this, but still it seems to be getting worse...

I'm quite willing and ready to cut out this playtime but
I wanted to get your advice about the whole hump/off/reaction
thing...It seems that when my pup is 'thwarted' in the hump,
he gets a little meaner to this retriever (grabbing on, growling,
generally trying harder etc.)

Seems to me that whatever I'm doing is not the most effective
thing to do! Help!

Posting an update--all of us agreed to discontinue letting
the dogs play together. We definitely don't want to allow
any escalating behavior in a bad direction. I was hoping
to use this dog for some training/proofing but I will have
to find other ways.

The owner is also understandably a bit overprotective as her
dog sometimes suffers seizures for an unknown reason. We
had started separating them for frequent 'breaks' in play
but we don't really want to take any chances, especially as
my pup is maturing and probably starting the hormonal thing.
This is the only dog we've let him play with because of the
retriever's playful/non-dominating nature and will probably
be the last, falling back on Leerburg's trustworthy advice
once again.

I'd still like to hear your ideas about handling this humping
thing, even if he's not likely to get close enough to try it
in the future. Can't have too much information.

The title of this thread made me laugh.

I am so sorry that I forgot this post. I made a mental note to reply if no one else did and then lost the note.

No humping allowed, period! No humping is allowed in my house. None. It's not a question of my controlling "whether or not my dog humps whom and what..." --- it's just flat not allowed.

This: I had been trying to use an 'OFF' command, followed about 1 second later by a leash yank. Buuuut I have a feisty brat and he just grabs on (say, to an ear) to wait out any resistance. I never let him succeed at this, but still it seems to be getting worse...

is 100% unacceptable. The other dog's owner made the right decision. JMHO.

Now for your pup. Depends on how old he is .....

How old is he again?

I would bet the humping goes away Claudette. Especially if you are doing any training at all with him. I think young males will do it once in a while almost involuntarily. Just casually stop him if he tries it, without making too much of it.

 Quote: steve strom

Especially if you are doing any training at all with him.

Is there work/sport in this pup's future?

HEy Claudette, didnt you say you wanted to try Sch. with him? Or am I mixing things up? Either way, I'm not saying to let him, although I have had people tell me to. I say stop him, but don't beat him up over it.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: steve strom

Especially if you are doing any training at all with him.

Is there work/sport in this pup's future?

I guess I thought he was a companion dog only.

I don't beat up over it, but I'm really really firm on this. (Of course, my POV comes from interactions allowed/not allowed in my own pack.)

More disturbing to me than the humping, is his attitude toward your attempts to stop him. He is blowing you off. it sounds like he doesn'y respect you as the pack leader. until you can establish yourself as the pack leader, this pup will continue to give you behavioral problems.

He also sounds like he is not getting enough exercise, both physical and mental.

Hi everybody, thank you for your posts. I do wish to do Schutzhund with him, so I have been quite careful with corrections.

We have erred on the side of mild corrections in this respect. We always follow through, but we have never put the 'fear of
god' in this puppy. I'm not quite sure about the 'line' here for a dog we wish to compete with, so we have been cautious so far.

We do practice all the leader behavior in non-confrontational
ways...such as doorways, NILIF, protecting him from loose dogs, etc. But yes, he is definitely a brat that still tries...

edit to add: He gets a ton of both physical and mental exercise, from ball-chasing to marker training and more structured physical exercise/walks. He has a lot of energy and enthusiasm, but the amount of exercise he gets I can't imagine is a problem.

oops! edit 2 for Connie: he's between 9 and 10 months old.

 Quote: webboard user

Hi everybody, thank you for your posts. I do wish to do Schutzhund with him, so I have been quite careful with corrections.

We have erred on the side of mild corrections in this respect. We always follow through, but we have never put the 'fear of
god' in this puppy. I'm not quite sure about the 'line' here for a dog we wish to compete with, so we have been cautious so far.

There is no reason a dog can't respect the human as their leader and still be a good competitor in sport. I think too many people are so worried about inhibiting a dog, that they wind up letting the dog walk all over them. And there is no reason to put the "fear of god" in a dog to insist on respect.

 Quote: webboard user

We do practice all the leader behavior in non-confrontational
ways...such as doorways, NILIF, protecting him from loose dogs, etc. But yes, he is definitely a brat that still tries...

I approve of non-confrontational approaches to dealing with behavioral issues. I have not, nor can I, see the video; so my only knowledge of it is what people say here. But I question whether there has been misunderstanding conveyed by it, or simply people not getting all they should out of it. What you do or don't do is not enough, or even as important as HOW you do it. If you don't present yourself as a leader, are unsure of yourself, etc.; doing things like going through the door first will make no difference. Conversely, if you present yourself with the confidence and certainty of a leader, and don't accept the dog taking liberties he hasn't earned; your dog will respect your authority no matter who goes through the door first.

I train guide dogs and service dogs. A guide dog "guides" a person. No, I'm not trying to be funny, but few actually realize what that means. Not only is the guide dog in front, including going through doors; but the guide dog doesn't cue off of their partner for their actions; rather the partner must take the dogs cues for their own actions. these are the sort of things that those who look for actions as the basis of who is the leader, would findmisleading. A guide dog does many of the things people list as "a leader does xyz.", but is not the leader. It is not what a leader does that makes him the leader, but what he is and believes.

I hope this doesn't sound like ramblings. I sometimes have trouble putting my thought coherently into English.

 Quote: webboard user

edit to add: He gets a ton of both physical and mental exercise, from ball-chasing to marker training and more structured physical exercise/walks. He has a lot of energy and enthusiasm, but the amount of exercise he gets I can't imagine is a problem.

oops! edit 2 for Connie: he's between 9 and 10 months old.

If he is getting enough exercise (and some dogs need a lot more than others especially in adolescence); then you can up his mental challenges in training.