Some of you may know that my BF has a white shepherd who when we receieved at 10 weeks old, acted very doggie.

With work he has become more normal around humans, looking for attention and play.

Since day 1 we have kept him and my slightly older female apart. Not once have they been allowed to play or hardly interact. She is mostly aloof to dogs and doesn't want to play, but not aggressive at all-more submissive.

At a year and a half old, my dog's behavior is good and she is being allowed 100% out of crate time. She follows me from room to room and is not a chewer and very respectful.

He is 14 months old and also doing well enough to be out most of the time. Except for one thing: He is trying all of the time in subtle and sometimes not so subtle ways to get her to play. Constant staring and following. If she leaves the room he will follow. If she is allowed outside, he would run up and follow her out if not stopped ( They both know they are not allowed through the door unless a command is given and then when they obey and look at our face they can get up and go out after an "Ok". )

She basically ignores him. If anything, she starts getting a little nervous because she is sensitive to verbal corrections or even sharp stares and when we verbally correct him for him pushing at her or trying to mouth her constantly she picks up on this.

The staring is really annoying. He is totally fixated on every move she makes. Not much else matters unless the cat walks by or the food bowls rattle in the kitchen when someone is getting their food ready.

I don't know if this means anything for sure, but if we are lounging somewhere and she is laying down he will often come up to her and get in her 'bubble' by crowding in really close. She will always get up and move and he'll take the spot as he watches her leave. He does this especially around one side of my BF's computer chair where she sleeps alot. Not sure if this is a slight form of bullying or not.

Is this a a mistake to let them out at the same time? Is he past the stage of being doggie and this is normal dog behavior or can this make things worse and set us back? I don't know if I should let them play together and maybe he'll settle down or what.

Sorry if these are dumb questions!

Bumping this!

 Quote: Heather Perring

... Is this a a mistake to let them out at the same time?

IMO, yes.

If you can't prevent his harassment of the other dog, then I'd separate them.

But maybe if you try a drag line on the male, you will have more success with keeping him out of her face.

Also, are you doing handler-focus work with him? And is he getting enough exercise and training? (I'm guessing not, but that's just a gut reaction to his behavior.)

Thanks for the reply Connie. I wasn't sure if he was bullying or not, because most of the time he's just staring and trying to play.

I put an e-collar on him and give him very low stims when he stares or tries to push her around and play and this has stopped most of the behavior. He tries again and again though, especially if you just verbally correct.

He does need more exercise, I've been sick and we haven't got them out like usual for several days.

That would not be my choice at all for this.

 Quote: Heather Perring

He is trying all of the time in subtle and sometimes not so subtle ways to get her to play. Constant staring and following. If she leaves the room he will follow. If she is allowed outside, he would run up and follow her out if not stopped.....

She basically ignores him. If anything, she starts getting a little nervous because she is sensitive to verbal corrections or even sharp stares and when we verbally correct him for him pushing at her or trying to mouth her constantly she picks up on this....

The staring is really annoying. He is totally fixated on every move she makes.....

Is this a a mistake to let them out at the same time?

He is bullying her, and doing so in a direct and confrontational way....there is no 'subtle' anything here, no attempt at initiating play. It sounds like she is nervous about the bullying, less so about the verbal corrections HE is getting. I would not let these two dogs interact.

 Quote: Heather Perring

I put an e-collar on him and give him very low stims when he stares or tries to push her around and play and this has stopped most of the behavior. He tries again and again though, especially if you just verbally correct.

I agree with Connie here, I so would not do this. It may actually instigate a fight. I wouldn't have these two dogs loose together. His relentless fixation on her sends up some red flags to me.

Hm..it doesn't seem aggressive at all to me. Let me explain in more detail.

He play bows and acts like a big dumb puppy. There is no jumping on her or putting paws on her though. If they are standing there he might trot up and nip at her ear or bump her gently, if I walk by with her at my side he will jump up and tuck his butt and haul across the room like he wants her to chase him, then circle around and watch her with his tail wagging, sometimes play bowing at that moment.

She is fine until I get tired of seeing him do it and tell him to knock it off. Then she gets weird and usually comes near me and lays down or paces uncomfortably. Normally she just ignores him unless they are both excited. Yesterday she responded in a playful demeanor as well. We just separated them.

She is the one who doesn't have dog experience. She's shy around other dogs.

He is generally calm and relaxed around dogs, and gently playful. We met a calm, friendly dog of a friend of ours recently and while Reese is timid and took awhile to come out of her shell, he was the perfect gentlemen.

He just always seems to keep tabs on her by watching her here at home.

I just don't want him latching onto her and becoming doggie like he was as a puppy.

As for the e-collar thing, I thought it'd be alright, it's setting is around 20 on a dogtra and feels like a little tickle. He's warned to stop then when he ignores me he got a stim. It worked better than the long line. So I should stop that?

 Quote: heather perring

If they are standing there he might trot up and nip at her ear or bump her gently ... He just always seems to keep tabs on her by watching her here at home. ... As for the e-collar thing, I thought it'd be alright, it's setting is around 20 on a dogtra and feels like a little tickle. He's warned to stop then when he ignores me he got a stim. It worked better than the long line. So I should stop that?

Yes, IMO, this is aggression, and so are "constant staring and following." So is "totally fixated on every move she makes.... he will often come up to her and get in her 'bubble' by crowding in really close. She will always get up and move and he'll take the spot as he watches her leave...."



IMO, you should not be using the e-collar.

And how could it work better than the dog being attached to you and not allowed in the other dog's space?

But maybe others will have different takes.

I just don't see how it's aggression. If you let it go it turns into a play session. I both want her to play with him and don't because she needs to learn that dogs are fun but I'm afraid he will bond too tightly.

To me he just seems really doggie. Like he wants to know where she is all the time and play with her. I don't see any aggression, just play bows and butt wagging. He'll lick her mouth and muzzle and dance around and act like a pup. It's just that when he isn't doing those things, alot of the time he is watching her. His tail is held even and neutral and not up. It gently waves. I pick up no hostile stiffness or anything. It's the same posture he uses if you have his ball in your hand and he wants it.

This

 Quote: Heather Perring

He play bows and acts like a big dumb puppy. There is no jumping on her or putting paws on her though. If they are standing there he might trot up and nip at her ear or bump her gently, if I walk by with her at my side he will jump up and tuck his butt and haul across the room like he wants her to chase him, then circle around and watch her with his tail wagging, sometimes play bowing at that moment.

paints a VERY different picture than this

 Quote: Heather Perring

...Constant staring and following. If she leaves the room he will follow.....He is totally fixated on every move she makes....if we are lounging somewhere and she is laying down he will often come up to her and get in her 'bubble' by crowding in really close. She will always get up and move and he'll take the spot as he watches her leave.....

The behaviors that you mentioned in your first post make me really uncomfortable about the interactions. The first post describes a very pushy dog that wouldn't have free rein in my house, certainly not the opportunity to move other dogs around. I don't let obsessive, fixated dogs interact. IME it usually leads to aggression, not necessarily immediately but as the 14 month old gets older these behaviors may become more serious. You also don't want to put your shy dog in a position to need to defend herself, especially when what she needs is more confidence. Sometimes a shy dog can bring out the worst behavior in a really confident dog, almost setting off some 'prey' vibe that can instigate problems. At the very least the fixation means the dog can't be called away from another dog, which is unacceptable to me.

IMHO a dog that fixates is not ready to have free interaction with that other dog, especially given this dog's history of 'dogginess'. I would give it more time for these two and keep a line on the male.

At the very LEAST, interaction should always be calm; no excited play.

I don't use an electric collar to influence dog/dog interaction. I feel that if corrections are necessary to keep the peace, the interaction probably shouldn't be occurring. Just my opinion.