I have a 3 year old Doberman and a 22 month old German Shepard both males.
The Doberman is fixed the GS is not.
The doberman is my husbands dog and the GS is my dog
Both Dogs have been through extensive training and they come when they are called, sit when told to sit, walk on a leash, etc., etc.
The problem that I have is about 8 months ago they began to fight with each other. The 1st was a jealousy thing, I was getting dressed and the GS was laying on the floor in my room, the dobie came walking in and the GS attacked him. We had been through this same situation in the past and they had never fought but all of the sudden the GS decided to get aggressive and I believe he was around 15 months. I had read in the Leerburg books about aggression starting at 15 to 18 months.

After a few battles I bought them each the wire muzzles from Leerburg and those certainly do the trick but they have to be on the dogs whenever they are not crated and if you get your finger caught in them and the dog pulls away quickly it really hurts.

My Question
WILL THE FIGHTING EVER END? WILL I EVER BE ABLE TO REMOVE THE MUZZLES?

Everytime they growl at each other they receive a correction.
I cannot keep them separated all the time, in my situation it is just not possible. So whenever they come out of their crates the muzzles go on and they stay on until they get fed (separately of course) or go back in their crates.

I went back to the aggressive / dominant dog information and made sure I was following the pack leadership criteria and believe that I am but the only thing that I cannot seem to get them to stop doing is fighting.

I have shock collars and all I have to do is push the tone button and they stop any bad behavior. If they are already in a battle then the collars are useless, the only thing that worked before the muzzles was blasting them with water. (I did not see the Leerburg write up on how to separate fighting dogs until after I purchased the muzzles). The muzzles have prevented any further incidents.


Some people have said that I should get the GS fixed but it is my understanding that fixing him now will not make any difference.

Any thoughts or ideas?

or am I doomed to be
Muzzled for Life!!!

"My Question WILL THE FIGHTING EVER END? WILL I EVER BE ABLE TO REMOVE THE MUZZLES? Everytime they growl at each other they receive a correction. I cannot keep them separated all the time, in my situation it is just not possible."

Separate the dogs! This is no way for them to live, and you're making them both worse. You have to make it possible.

Other people manage it with rotations of who is out at what time, etc. It takes some planning and some effort, but it's by no means impossible.



eta
JMO. I'm sure you will get other replies.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/30/2009 02:48 PM)
Edit reason: eta

what I do is lots of excercise, obedience training and kennels. no they will never stop trying to rank on each other, it sucks. I tried to rehome but no one is going to take a bite trained dog into their home. fortunatly my kids help alot with training and care

The reality of owning multiple dogs, is that they just may not ever get along together. I have 2 now that do get along together with some supervision. I have had 3 at one time & 2 got along together & the 3rd got along with one other but not both. This just a fact of life with dogs. They had to be rotated out of crates & rooms. You have to be diligent, because one error & you have a fight on your hands. You can make the decision to keep them both & keep them seperate or rehome one. Like Connie said, it is not fair for the dogs to live in fear or each other. It is your job as a leader to keep the peace. There are others here that live with dogs that don't get along & keep seperate & rotate.

Also, an e-collar is not the tool to use in a fight. Can exculate the fight not stop it. JMO & experience

there is another thread here on the same issue, the other thing I've done is watch for subtle cues of stress and ranking then give a redirection command

Thank you, I appreciate the feedback. I do watch for the cues and redirect them.
<p>The problem with rotation is that my husband has severe arthritis and cannot get around really well, so if I am not home then the dogs are let out together and muzzled so they cannot fight. He is just not able to handle the rotation process and we feel that kenneling them too long is worse then muzzling them.</p>
<p>The GSD is my dog so when I come home he follows me every where I go</p>
<p> They do not fight every time they are in each others sight, they are random moments that they decide to go at it. They often played with each other and chase each other around the yard, and they still do, the only difference is now I have the muzzles on them because I do not know what will set them off. Before I got the muzzles it happened every couple of weeks but outside of that they were great friends.</p>
<p>The fighting was very intense and they suffered some bite marks but nothing that ever required stitches, however, I did not wait for it to get to that point so I bought the muzzles.</p>

Laura,
I can't understand your husband's condition or how difficult it may or may not be for him to get around, but it isn't a hard chore for someone even in a wheel chair to put one dog inside it's kennel and then let the other one out of his.

What you think of as play...is very likely NOT play. Muzzle or no.

Laura,
Is this how you have been 'managing' the dogs interaction?

Quote:
<p>I have a GSD and a very large Dobie and I have a wireless fence. While I do not believe that my dogs are as willful as yours they do have their moments and are dog aggressive. I live on 3 acreas; one day while working in the yard and having the dogs platzing on the front porch, a strange dog came in the yard and started up the driveway. My dogs started to bark but it did not detour the stranger; my dogs then charged after the dog full speed ahead. They ignored the warning signal and broke through the safe zone; they immediately began getting shocked and yelped loudly, (I felt horrible, but it was better than having a dead dog in my yard). We were calling the dogs back and I was running down the 400 foot driveway after them, once the shocking began the dobie ran to my husband who was on the front porch and the GSD ran to me, where I popped off the collar because I was outside of the safe zone at this point.</p>

<p>The first shock must have really hurt because they literally sounded like they screamed and I felt like the worst owner in the world, but the strange dog ran away and my dogs have never crossed outside of the safe zone again.</p>

<p>Other advantages to the wireless fence is that I can take the unit with me when I go visit friends and family. I just put on the collars and plug in the unit, set the range of the area they have access too, and as soon as they hear the warning tone they immediately return to the safe zone.</p>

<p>If you think this might be an option (even a "just in case" backup) then be sure that you get the type of wireless that continues the correction anytime the dog is outside of the safe zone.</p>

<p>Don't know how others feel about this but I like to take the dogs out with me when I work in the yard or am just sitting on the porch and it gives me an extra piece of mind. I still continue to work with them on listening and following my commands but like having this additional level of comfort.</p>
End Quote from http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=163&Number=258202&Searchpage=1&Main=24418&Words=+Laura+Lozzi&topic=0&Search=true#Post258202


You go to work, the dogs go into the yard muzzled. I got that right so far?

 Quote: randy allen

it isn't a hard chore for someone even in a wheel chair to put one dog inside it's kennel and then let the other one out of his.

Randy,

I found a great youtube of this man who can't walk and move his arms very well. He has a control switch on his wheelchair; however, this man trains his german shepherd in schutzhund.

Here is his youtube video. All I can say bless his heart for what he is doing! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSqmD15X2_U