Just to catch everyone up: Conan has had intermittent diarrhea and coughing since he was about 6 months old. He is 2 years old now. We have tried a number of diet changes that help for a while, then the diarrhea/coughing is back. We have done a number of blood tests, fecal tests, x-rays, ultrasounds, antibiotics, a Panacur treatment, and an endoscopy and bronchoscopy. His lung x-rays showed up with congestion, but when the bronchoscopy was done, nothing was seen, and the biopsies came back negative for anything. The vets don't think it's acid reflux because of the way he coughs, but they said an irritation in his stomach could cause coughing.

Conan's endoscopy biopsy results came back showing that he had a lot of helicobacter gastritis. Our vet wants to put him on Flagyl, Amoxicillin, and Prilosec for 30 days. That sounds like a lot to me but he's had this problem for a long time, so if it works then I am willing to do it. If these don't work (meaning if there is absolutely no improvement at all, as opposed to a slight improvement) they will treat for IBD. But he doesn't want to start steroids and aggressive drug treatments for IBD if that's not what it is. So right now we're going with diagnosis #1, the helicobacter gastritis.

He also wants to start Conan on either IVD Venison & Potato kibble or Hill's z/d, I don't remember which one. We didn't buy any food from him. We've been feeding Conan Orijen fish blend kibble with raw pumpkin for a few months now and have had intermittent diarrhea on it. The internal medicine vet who did his endoscopy even said that if we have him on Orijen, switching to another limited ingredient diet won't make too big a difference, most likely. But our vet is really adamant about it. He said something about the proteins already being broken down.

I really, really, really want to start Conan on THK. I don't want to to a regular raw diet because of his already inflamed small intestine and bacterial infection. I feel that adding the possibility of more bacteria isn't good. But dehydrated is different. He said we can do it if we want, but he really wants us to try his choices.

This is the second vet we've seen, and is incredibly better than the first vet. The first vet did blood and fecal samples, but never went any further than those and antibiotics.

What would you do here? Would you switch to THK now or would you take one of the vet's recommendations? The foods he's recommending are grain free, but I can't help but he biased against the expensive vet foods. He did say that he's seen very good results with either food though, but because we already feed a limited ingredient diet, I don't see the need for them without trying the THK first.

Thanks so much, and again I apologize for all the books I write on here!

I would call the vet and get the story on those two RX foods.

IVD is a limited-ingredient diet. Z/D is a hydrolyzed-protein food.

Which did he suggest? There is no answer applicable to both; they are different concepts.

You know what limited-ingredient diets are.

Hydrolyzing, OTOH, is breaking down a protein into amino acids by a chemical process (hydrochloric acid hydrolysis).

So what I would want to know is why the dog would benefit from hydrolyzed proteins, if that was what he was suggesting. Then you can make a much more informed decision.

Thanks Connie. He made it sound like they were both the same category of foods. He said he's seen very good results with both, and that the broken down proteins might be easier for Conan to handle. We haven't tried a hydrolyzed (is that right?) protein diet, only a limited ingredient diet. Perhaps we should? He didn't go into much detail about either other than that he's had great results from them both. The internal diagnostic vet recommended the z/d diet but said if we didn't see changes with Orijen we probably won't with it either.

 Quote: Katie Finlay

Thanks Connie. He made it sound like they were both the same category of foods.

Maybe IVD (made by Royal Canin) has recently introduced a hydrolyzed version.

I'd want to ask why he thinks the hydrolyzed protein will be a benefit, and listen to the answer. A hydrolyzed protein is usually given because theoretically the proteins in the food have been made small enough so the allergic dog's immune system won't recognize and react to the protein in its new fragmented state and won't go through its usual immune response (allergic response).

So what you want to know, since he does not think there is a food allergy, is what the benefit is for the dog. Maybe there's a great answer. I don't know what it is, but if we could hear it, it would make an informed discussion much easier.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/30/2009 05:35 PM)
Edit reason: added more

Thanks. We'll call and I'll answer back when we hear from him. He basically said that the hydrolyzed proteins would be easier to digest. He's actually a bit concerned because helicobacter gastritis rarely causes diarrhea, it's almost always vomiting. I don't have a huge problem trying the food, but I'd eventually like to feed raw anyway, so why not switch now?

 Quote: Katie Finlay

.... but I'd eventually like to feed raw anyway, so why not switch now?

As you mentioned, avoiding a possible bacterial load while there's already a pathogen problem.

 Quote: Katie Finlay

Thanks. We'll call and I'll answer back when we hear from him. He basically said that the hydrolyzed proteins would be easier to digest. He's actually a bit concerned because helicobacter gastritis rarely causes diarrhea, it's almost always vomiting. I don't have a huge problem trying the food, but I'd eventually like to feed raw anyway, so why not switch now?

Ease of digestion from special processing isn't the only factor in choosing foods, as you know. I'm not seeing the connection between the helicobacter and the hydrolyzed proteins. I'm not a health professional, of course, but it would be great if the link could be explained.

He said that there's a small chance a diet change will make any difference, but more that it's worth a shot and he's had good success with it even if the dog has a condition other than an allergy. He just wants to see what his reaction is to hydrolyzed protein.

 Quote: Katie Finlay

He said that there's a small chance a diet change will make any difference, but more that it's worth a shot and he's had good success with it even if the dog has a condition other than an allergy.

Well, you could give it a short trial if you check the ingredients and they look OK for a short run. If he actually has something else going on that's affecting the lining of his gut (and nutrient absorption), the hydrolyzed food would tell you pretty quickly if it's going to help.

JMO.

Its grain free and they aren't the worst ingredients ever, but it's just not THK. I think we will try it and if no difference, then we'll go to THK. We're going to be updateding the vet weekly on his condition. I'm interested to see if it's the bacteria or IBD. I'm crossing my fingers for the excess bacteria. Thanks again Connie!