Good Morning,
I am also new to the site. I have poured over this site as we recently adopted a new dog (mastiff/lab) in our family that has interfemale dog aggression issues.

Brief background: We have a working Great Pyrenees and a German Shephard with severe seperation aniexty.
My husband is a long haul truck driver and we have a 3 year old and a 7 month old. I am virtually a single mother. I work outside of the home. Additionally we live on a small farm with cattle, goats, pigs, chickens, llamas and a horse. I only put this in to give perspective on my questions.

Several questions:

1. The Great Py is working with the animals. However, he is only a selectively obendient dog. Before this website all the research I did said that's fine, because he needs to be independent to do his job. Is that true? To establish myself as the pack leader how do I socially isolate him and still have him doing his job with the animals?

2. I now use the crate and rotate method with the German Shephard and Mastiff mix. they are both females, one spayed the other intact. I use my daughters 8X10 outside playhouse as the mastiffs "crate". I am using social isolation to establish myself as the pack leader. For exercise, is it ok to turn her out into a 70X70 fenced in orchard with a drag line. I know walks are best, not only for bonding but additional pack leader teaching. I just ask as it is a time challenge to do chores, and get everyone ready before work. I have more time after work to take them for a walk. Is that ok or will it hinder the establishment of me as the pack leader?
Bella, Mastiff mix, is the one that has interfemale dog aggression issues. I am ordering a prong collar, dominant dog collar and a muzzle.

3. How do you know when the pack structure has been established? i know I need to order the DVD, but the budget can only handle so much at once.

4. The German Shephard that has seperation anxiety was forgotten for several weeks after her previous owner past away. She lived on the water in the toliet. She is very clingy and nervous, but has come a long way. She was in the house, but she can open locked doors and bust crates so she has now moved to a tie out with a insulated dog house. We have always had a door in the house so this is a huge shift for our family. Do I start social isolation with her too to establish myself as the pack leader?

Sorry this is so long, just trying to provide necessary information to get a helpful answer. Thanks for any assistance. Jessica

How long have you had the anxious GSD?

How long has she been outside with the doghouse and tie-out?

Also, the Great Pyr -- probably a dumb town-girl question, so sorry in advance: What is his farm-animal job? Is he a guardian? What are the leadership issues with him? Where does he live?

Are you working with (training) each of the other dogs?

Is the Mastiff always separated from the GSD?

PS

Welcome, and I know you will get lots of help from board folks; I just wanted to clarify some points that were foggy to me.

The anxious GSD we've had about 1 1/2 years. She is much, much calmer, but still has seperation issues. She has been outside with the tie out about 2 months. I've worked with a K-9 trainer and she has come a long way, but opening the doors was the last straw. It's my fault for being inconsistent right before our son was born. She is not on the tie-out when I'm home, because she is well trained. She only has issues when you leave her.

The Great Pyr keeps coyotes and other predators from killing the goats and chickens. He lives outside in the field. He is not trained. He shows dominant behaviors that are not acceptable, pushing his head under your hand, pawing your leg to be petted. He gets a firm "NO".

The GSD is trained the Mastiff is not. I have not had her very long and was starting with the basics, until I read the social isolation idea on this site. So I was going to do that and then start training. Did I misunderstand are you supposed to do these together?

The Mastiff and the GSD are always separated. Before I found this site, I tried to introducte them across the fence to one another and that did not work, so I got on the internet to do some research and found this site.

OK, GSD has been with you 18 months, has some remaining SE, lives in outside house when you are away but sleeps and socializes inside with family.

Great Pyr is untrained in basic ob, lives with flock that he guards from predators, has some pushy behaviors to you and others. (I don't really know anything about basic ob, leadership, etc., with flock guardians, but I think we have some owners of flock guardians on the board.)

Dog-aggro Mastiff lives outdoors and needs training.

Is this about right?

How long have you had the Mastiff and the Great Pyr?

Sorry about all the questions. I don't know about everyone else, but I need to kind get into the flow of the dogs' lives, etc., in order to try any suggestions. It'll probably help the other board folks too.

No problem....I appreciate you trying to capture all aspects to give suggestions.

You've got everyone correct. I was rotating the Mastiff and GSD through the house because I read it is helpful for dogs to get each others scent before an introducation. However, I found the Mastiff also has an issue with cats.

We've had the Mastiff maybe a month. The Great Pyr has been around for several years, but after reading this site I wasn't sure what I needed to do with him. I want to establish myself as pack leader with all of our dogs. I thought previous to this website I could do it through basic ob and being authoratative and firm with commands. I learned the old method of training and corrections when I was young...jerk the collar to prevent pulling, etc. I have poured over the markers training section and will be implementing that once we start basic ob with the Mastiff.

Thanks again for all your help!!

Well, since you need to address each dog separately, I'll get the ball rolling with the GSD. When she was left in the house and broke through the crate, did she tear up the house?

How did you train basic ob? Or did you? (You mentioned a trainer.)

What do you know about marker training? (This is pertinent even if she has been exposed to basic ob work already.)

eta
Oops. I see you said you had been reading about marker training. Good for you. Confidence and a better bond will come out of marker work with the GSD. Do you get the gist of it? Any chance of getting the first LB marker video?




Edited by Connie Sutherland (12/31/2009 11:50 AM)
Edit reason: eta

The GSD did tear up the door, until she figured out how to open the door. It is only right when you first leave, after that she settles down. For instance, she knows when I'm going to work. She's fine, but the minute I drive off she flips out. I know this because I leave and then return to show her I'm returning like I worked on with the trainer.

In the past when she gets the door open and I'm truly gone to work she stays around the house and is fine. She is responding very well and quickly to the social isolation. She is turning to me for all direction. I get the gist of marker training so we are going to start on that.

Our budget is pretty tight right now, so I'm going to start saving for the dominance dog video, establishing pack order and marker training. For now, I'm going to work with the information on your website. The article on the website is very good.

The ob training was the beginning clicker training. HOwever, it did not have markers involved. Thanks again for your insight! Happy New Year!!

 Quote: Jessica MacArthu

... The ob training was the beginning clicker training. HOwever, it did not have markers involved.

Oh, good, because a clicker is a type of marker. (People can use clickers or a verbal marker, or even both.)

Well, since we started with the GSD, want to see if a flock-guardian-owner sees this thread to address the issue of independence and basic ob in a guardian dog (the Great Pyr), while we meanwhile warm up your basic marker knowledge (the GSD)? We have lots of marker folks onboard.

I'm thinking that a little marker work on your own with the GSD might help your confidence and ease with the training m.o. before you start with the green Mastiff.

If you would, please tell us what kind of/how much structured exercise the GSD and the Mastiff get. This would not include hanging out alone in the yard (or anywhere).

Sounds good.

The GSD gets more structured exercise than the Mastiff. GSD helps me with the chores and feeding on the farm twice a day, which can be as little as 45 minutes to 2 hours. During this time, she walks beside me and we work on basic ob. She is not on a leash just under voice command during this time. She knows the following commands: sit, wait, good - use as my release command, leave it, get back, and no. I also use her strong prey drive to help me move animals when I need help. The more I work with her the better it is...which is a given, but to be very honest I'm trying to work a schedule that is benefical to everyone involved...children, dogs, farm animals, etc.

Unfortunatley the Mastiff does not have structured training. She weighs almost as much as I do and has broken one brand new lifetime gaurentee harness and one of the same collar. She broke the harness trying to get to the GSD and the collar trying to get to the cat. Until I have a prong collar and dominant dog collar we're not going anywhere. It's just not safe, for me, her or the other animals. I do walk her back and forth to her turn out pen, but that distance it about 1/8 mile- and all other animals are put away. She pulls hard so I need to figure out how to use marker training with that. Before I found this site I taught her how to sit. We were working on waiting when I realized she has bigger issues than I can handle without help.

Thanks again, Jessica