 Laying in Submissive Manner - not straight
#261184 - 01/06/2010 05:15 PM |
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Okay, so this may not make much sense but when I ask Athena to lay down she goes in with her head and front part of her body to the side then full rolls over with either her full belly or 3/4 belly showing. Is she being submissive to me or is she giving me grief and just laying down how "she" wants to? Her verbal command is given and I usually point/touch the floor in front on her - maybe need to stand farther back and see if the point is getting her all cockeyed? She still is fairly gangly even though she just turned two so my other thought is that it is possibly a coordination issue?
I asked Diesel the same way and he lays properly at first then usually turns over for a belly rub if he sees Athena doing it.
Is there a way to get them to lay straight?
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Re: Laying in Submissive Manner - not straight
[Re: Tamara Tholl ]
#261191 - 01/06/2010 07:39 PM |
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I know my dog use to sit funny,I use to think he was just trying to be defiant, he looked like winnie the pooh when he sat. He just recently grew out of it and he turned 2 in nov. I dont know if that helps ya at all. He was so uncooredinated growing up. Maybe he had a hard time getting his butt positioned comfortabley.
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Re: Laying in Submissive Manner - not straight
[Re: Debbie Dibble ]
#261193 - 01/06/2010 07:59 PM |
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use food as a lure to get her to go into the correct position, watch the Power of Training with Food DVD, near the end Michael demonstrates how to do the 3 positions sit, down, stand using food as the lure, its awesome. It can help if you have a puppy doing lazy sits also.
Also sitting is more difficult for dogs depending on the surface they are on, like slippery wood flooring or ceramic tile. The pup sits, then its butt slides back until the dog is in the down. cute at first but, it messes with them when you try & teach proper sit to down to stand to sit & so on, the dog should never move, when it's butt is sliding, it cant help it. So be careful of the surface where you train.
Id give 2 days, maybe 6 10 minute sessions (3 per day) with food & Michaels method of raining with the lure, that dog will be laying correctly.
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Re: Laying in Submissive Manner - not straight
[Re: RC Dennis ]
#261197 - 01/06/2010 08:25 PM |
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thats what he was on too, ceramic tile, well now i know, it was cute at first but he looked plain goofy.
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Re: Laying in Submissive Manner - not straight
[Re: Tamara Tholl ]
#261199 - 01/06/2010 08:31 PM |
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OIs she being submissive to me or is she giving me grief and just laying down how "she" wants to?
Are her chest and head still up with just the back legs off to the side, or is she completely laying down and offering her belly for a rub? If it's the former, my guess is that she (I'm assuming we're talking about the mastiff?) is simply more comfortable in a sprawling lie down as opposed to the upright "Sphynx" type position - big dogs have more weight and bulk to work around when they maneuver themselves. If it's the later - do you rub her belly when she "asks"? The fact that your other dog is now rolling over alongside her "for a belly rub" makes me think the both of them know you're good for it  - would that be correct?
Is it important to you that she lie a certain way? I wouldn't want a dog lying down only to expect belly rubs (and yes, you can train away from that, and train a straight down), but if she's just sliding her back legs off to the side, and the important thing is just that she be "down", I wouldn't worry about it.
Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding the situation though...
~Natalya
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Re: Laying in Submissive Manner - not straight
[Re: Natalya Zahn ]
#261204 - 01/06/2010 09:52 PM |
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We have worked on many surfaces but in the home we have mostly hardwood and slate. Even if I do it in the bedroom where there is carpet she still does it. I actually don't give in all the time but sometimes I just reward for laying because she went through a stage where she wouldn't laydown unless you physically did it by putting resistance against her on her collar.
She goes from a sit (fairly square) to lay down by laying her head and shoulder first to the side then flops to the side. I haven't really seen her lay straight (she does look silly when she does cause her back legs stick straight up and looks uncomfortable) but I don't like her always going prone I would be okay with legs to the side but I don't think I have ever seen her that way.
She sits well but does the Winnie the Pooh impression as well some times - I know large breeds (yes its my Mastiff) take longer to mature so not sure if it is goofy teens.
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Re: Laying in Submissive Manner - not straight
[Re: Tamara Tholl ]
#261205 - 01/06/2010 10:04 PM |
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Is it a play bow or does it look submissive (ears back, shrinking body language)?
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Re: Laying in Submissive Manner - not straight
[Re: Tamara Tholl ]
#261207 - 01/06/2010 10:14 PM |
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could just be that is more comfortable for her conformation. Sometimes there can be underlying joint discomfort you can try to rule out.
Generally, for functional purposes I dont worry about that kind of thing too much since unless you are in a competition which require relatively short down stays - it is better for her to be comfortable and remain in position for long periods if required.
If for some reason I need a dog to down "perfectly" I train the dog his/her positions on a bench or platform that is narrow enough where the dog does not have the option of flopping over until I'm confident that the dog has broken the habit - then I'll move back to the floor. Good luck finding something suitable for a mastiff though.
love the photo - want to reach in and pet them!
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Re: Laying in Submissive Manner - not straight
[Re: Mike D'Abruzzo ]
#261210 - 01/06/2010 10:27 PM |
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love the photo - want to reach in and pet them!
Thanks Mike - they love their cuddles moreso the pups that Bandit.
Scott - I wouldn't consider it a bow (like in play) it is definately side tilted looking up from side of her head/body. I will have to see if I can figure out how to load a video link.
I will try to guide her in a "straight" down with a treat on the carpet and see what happens - I don't think I can find a bench for her that would fit! Besides she is not a big fan of jumping on things, I don't know if it is a size thing or she is just picky but I prefer it that way.
I had her doing 15 min stays (starting in a sit position and then when she layed down voluntarily I would ignore her as long as she stayed in place) in the yard this summer/fall and don't recall the side flop then so that is one of the reason why I am not sure if it is a growth thing or just her being stubborn.
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Re: Laying in Submissive Manner - not straight
[Re: Tamara Tholl ]
#261246 - 01/07/2010 11:31 AM |
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Is your goal to have to in a straight down for the 15 minute stays?
Here was a challenge I had with Maya when I did some agility work with her: I had taught her down by having her first sit and then lay down. In agility, they are supposed to just drop down, boom, all at once. I also had taught her to roll on her side, so she sometimes would anticipate what she thought I might ask her to do next by rolling on her side.
Yes, my regal German Shepherd was indeed the biggest goof in agility.
I had to retrain the down. I lured her into a quick down by having her lower her front first, cued her YES the moment her body was in the right position, had her stay down for just a few seconds, ran a short length, and then did it again. I built up her "upright down" to longer durations over time.
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