Hi Leerburg!
I think we have a handle on our dog's itchiness issues--but I wanted to post the full story to get your opinions/criticism.

Our pup has some digestive issues. Usually in the mornings, and sometimes in the afternoon, he has pretty normal poos. Other times he has a lot of mush going on. After a lot of experimentation, we think that's just the way he is, like some people. We do give him pumpkin with his food to prevent really bad poos.

He is thriving and healthy otherwise, a good weight, easy to keep healthy, nice coat, nice pads, etc. The next issue he has is he gets itchy when (we think) fed certain things. It's winter here in New England and our house is immaculately clean, so I'd be hard to convince of a flea allergy. But I'm not close-minded. He is on Advantix but right now I'm waiting to dose
him until I speak with our vet...I'm not a big fan of applying pesticides to my dog unless it's a reasonable thing to do.

To tackle this itching thing, we have been strict about his diet. We found that he did well on CA Naturals Lamb & Rice so that is his base food. We supplement with pumpkin and Wellness 95% Lamb canned food. Aside from his meals, we have been trying one meat
or organ source at a time. He seems to tolerate beef kidney, but not heart, liver, or meat. Lamb has been fine but he started itching when we rotated into dehydrated lamb lung treats. Also, I have some fish oil capsules (of gelatin) that I just realized I should leave out for now. I had been giving him one or two a day as treats. It seems that he starts itching the day after we introduce a new item, if that item disagrees with him. It can take a few days to a week for the itching to subside after withdrawing the new item.

He's not itching to the point of broken skin, his paws never itch; it's always scratching an ear, behind elbows, and a spot on his spine a few inches behind the shoulders.

Any advice on or criticism of our methods so far is welcome!
Also if you think a particular test would be the most helpful
for us to have a vet administer I'd really appreciate the
tip. Thank you

Just quick things to add to the troubleshooting because I have seen it cause itching.

Frequent bathing can be a cause.

Also, in the winter like us - the heat source in your home can dry the air and cause skin issues. A humidifier can help if it is this problem.

Good luck, hope you figure out the source.

Ditto on the bathing.

The most common things I see on a daily basis to cause itching would be:
-food allergy (grains, crappy food)
-flea allergy (even when treated with frontline or something similar, fleas can still get on the dog or bite the dog, they just die afterwards. Dog still has bad reaction)
-Environmental allergy (just like people. Not too common in winter though)
-also be careful of new or scented detergents and things you'd wash their bedding in. Plus any fragrances in the shampoo you use- or spray-on deodorizers.

Just a couple of thoughts...

Random thought...

My father came for a visit for a couple of weeks. He smokes cigarettes, and we allowed him to smoke in the kitchen (where, as it happens, our Leonberger likes to nap.) After a few days exposure to the cigarette smoke, she started itching. Since the smoke was the only new environmental thing, I asked him to smoke outside. Dog's itching subsided.

Secondhand smoke doesn't often come up in discussions here as a potential itch trigger---but it might be something worth considering, if it applies.

Please read this:

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=260422&Searchpage=1&Main=24978&Words=+Lori+Hall&topic=0&Search=true#Post260422


It's a basic overview of allergies in dogs.

 Quote: Webboard User

... To tackle this itching thing, we have been strict about his diet. We found that he did well on CA Naturals Lamb & Rice so that is his base food. We supplement with pumpkin and Wellness 95% Lamb canned food. Aside from his meals, we have been trying one meat or organ source at a time. He seems to tolerate beef kidney, but not heart, liver, or meat. Lamb has been fine but he started itching when we rotated into dehydrated lamb lung treats. Also, I have some fish oil capsules (of gelatin) that I just realized I should leave out for now.

You're feeding commercial foods with lots of ingredients? It's not possible with lots of ingredients to gauge the added items when they are added to many items.

Gelatin in fish oil capsules is one tiny ingredient in among dozens that are reaching the dog with two commercial foods plus add-ins.

Please read the link. Food is not the most likely cause of itching.

But if it is food, an elimination diet, to ID the allergens, is done by feeding nothing (for weeks) but a couple of foods the dog has never tasted. (Allergies develop on repeated exposure.) So anything you add to the food now is one more food you cannot use if you ever have to do a real elimination diet.

Even more important, adding a new food does not test it. Allergies develop on repeated exposure. Feeding it once does not tell you that the dog is not allergic to it. The dog has to eat it once for his system to form the antibody called immunoglobulin E that would, next time the food is eaten, interact with the food's protein on mast cells and trigger the release of chemicals like histamine that produce the symptoms of the allergic reaction.

P.S.

I'm very sympathetic -- having lots of rescue dog allergy experience. It's frustrating (and worse) for you and for the dog.

I forgot to mention that environmental allergies are not at all uncommon in winter. Mold, dust mites, and a huge long list of others can be even more virulent in a closed-up or damp house.

In other seasons, rinsing pollen and other allergens off the dog before he can carry them to his bedding and carpets is a good thing. This can be done with no shampoo or with very mild shampoo (not for humans - different pH). Keeping pollen and other plant particles off the paws (via a rinse on the way in after time in a field/meadow) can be very helpful in preventing them from then being on the dog 24/7 to be inhaled.

ETA
There are many threads here on allergies, and they are virtually all worth reading, because there are so many folks here with a ton of allergy knowledge. "Itchy" or "itching" can be the search term.

For example, I just tried itchy and expanded the date range to two years. A wealth of info!


Edited by Connie Sutherland (01/07/2010 10:08 AM)
Edit reason: eta

I want to add to anyone whose post was maybe contradicted in my posts -- I learn much more here than I can ever give back, and I mean only to give the results of years spent (ongoing) in researching canine allergies* (and nutrition), and I'm afraid that sometimes I post so often that I forget to add how much I admire the folks struggling through the tribulations of itching dogs and how hard you work for info and help, and how fortunate your dogs are to have you.

I never mean to sound like "this is wrong and this is right" and I'm afraid that sometimes when I re-type the info the seven thousandth time, I do. ( I forget that to the folks reading it now, it's the first time.)


*and, unfortunately, many allergic rescue dogs' worth of direct experience

I absolutely didn't think of the dust mites, etc.. I was thinking of "outdoor" allergies. Very good point, Connie!

We love your info Connie, don't ever be afraid to post. I don't easily offend- we ALL can learn from each other! One thing I have learned from years of working with people and their dogs is: There's an exception for almost every rule!

I wanted some opinions on raw diet only vs kibble and raw diet together. What I heard is feeding raw and kibble together is bad in the way of kibble food is digested much slower and theres a risk of the raw getting bacteria in the stomach befor it gets the chance to digest because of the kibble slowing down the digestive process. Any body eles heard that. I dont think my dogs would even eat kibble now after being on the raw diet, unless maybe I starved them first.