Hey there everyone,
I'm working on attempting to properly obedience train my 4yr old Belgian Shep mix rescue. She is walking well on leash with buckle collar, responding to "slow" and not pulling. I'm well into the marker training and have begun sit and down, which she does enthuastically. Still in the learning phase. I wanted feedback regarding her intermittent disobedience while on the leash while walking. This occurs sporadically, but she will get distracted, and got nuts, lunging twirling barking, if a dog gets too close to us and particularly if it acts aggressive toward her. On ocassion she will do the same if a group of children run by too close. I walk her every day, and most of the time am able to divert where we go to avoid these situations. When I attempt to correct her in the buckle collar it really seems useless, I guess its because her drive is up (I'm trying to understand these behaviors) Would I be better to place her in a prong and let her administer a self correction when she exhibits these behaviors? In the home she seems to fit the description of s "soft" dog. Who is only looking to please and rarely requires anything but a "no" I guess the real question is...is it better to administer a high level correction in a flat collar or a lower level in the prong. I would really appreciate feedback from someone experienced in training. I'm following the instruction in Ed's DVD, Basic Obedience.
Thank you in advance!
Linda

is it better to administer a high level correction in a flat collar or a lower level in the prong. Get the prong. A 'high' level correction, even if your dog just REALLY jerks to the end of the leash with a buckle collar, can injure the dogs trachea and/or esophagus. Since the prong acts by pinching the skin around the neck, rather than by the huge single pressure along the front of the neck, it won't cause permanent injury and you can have a 'real' correction with much less force from your end of the leash.

Are you in some official classes yet? I know my dogs and I alway learn fastest in class because it's full of all the distractions that are what cause the training 'challenges' for me. And a good instructor can give the immediate feedback I need to help my dog learn the fastest with the least frustration (for both of us). I would be also be pretty concerned with the periods your dog seems to be 'going nuts'.

Hi Jenn,
thanks for the input. I kinda been feeling that I probably do need a pinch collar for the few instances that she gets barking and rushing towards other dogs etc.,as I mentioned. I am not in a formal class yet. I really wanted to do some solid work as per the DVD then take her into a class for the distraction phase. I did contact a local obedience school, mentioned her issues, met with an instructor, she walked her dog in the large room after I had Samantha in there for a few minutes, so she could observe her, my girl really did nothing (not on her turf?) She felt that she would be fine in a class. I was considering agility down the road with her. I guess I am kind of unsure of the pinch collar since I never have worked with one. My dog seems to react more often when she is with me, and when we are in an area that I guess she considers hers?? At any rate, I need to deal with it correctly. It seems to keep coming back to needing solid obedience training. I suppose the pinch would help out in that instance. Have you worked with pinch collars? Again, thank you for your input.
Linda

Linda,
Your dog may be reacting more out of fear than actually "disobeying" you. It seems to me that at this point, you simply need to learn how to a) prevent the bark/lunge behavior while teaching an alternate response and b) react more appropriately to the bark/lunge behavior when it happens.
A) The key here is maintaining a distance from other dogs at which your dog can be aware of their presence, yet is still able to function without barking/lunging. At that distance, work her through some obedience commands using motivational techniques. Just as with any other distraction, the keys to teaching her to attend to you with the distraction present are distance and duration. So, starting at a distance where she can still be successful, keep the duration short; just 5-10 seconds, then turn and move in the exact opposite direction away from the distraction. Use a "turn away" command, such as "turn away", "this way", or possibly "leave it" (doesn't matter really) as you use a tasty morsel to lead her by the nose and circle her away from the other dog (she gets the morsel when she is turned away and walking briskly the other direction with you). Over time, the distance can be decreased and the duration increased (this is a stimulus gradient; starting with the stimulus at a low level and over time, as the dog's proficiency increases, increasing the intensity of the stimulus). If she refuses treats or won't attend to you, even if she's not actively barking and lunging, then you're too close.
B) If you find yourself in a situation where the barking/lunging occurs (bad owner; you didn't maintain enough distance!!!!), simply turn your dog away (don't yank back on the leash, but instead turn your dog to the side by applying firm, even pressure, not yanks, circling her away from the other dog) and do a 180 away from the other dog in order to break her eye contact with the other dog, and as soon as your dog is able to follow commands, put her through a few quick commands and reward her for THAT behavior. Keep in mind that yanking on her buckle collar and allowing her to repeatedly hit the end of the lead when she is aroused can function as agitation, increasing the intensity of her barking/lunging.

Lisa, thanks for your response, right now thats basically what I am doing. I always keep a pocket full of goodies for her. When I spot something that may arouse her I move away, swing wide and reward her attention on me with the marker training, and say "watch me" Basically she has gotten much better, there are a couple dogs a few doors down that are always out in the yard barking when we head out for our walk, I don't go past them. Samantha used to really focus on them, now she glances and stays attentive to me, and gets a reward, food and praise when she does. I guess my question was for the few instances when she does overreact. She did the other day, and I wonder if it is because we didn't get out for our usual walk/run the day before. She seemed really up and hyped on the beginning of our outing and thats when she was just full of herself, barking and pulling as group of runners went by unexpectedly. I did pull her away but she had no interest in my treats at that point. Thats why I asked if a pinch collar in that instance would have been apprpriate. It seems like she would have administered her own correction via the collar when she pulled and twirled towards the pack of runners. Am I correct in that assumption, regarding the self correction? They really came from out of now where. Like I mentioned I'm hesitant to use a pinch collar, since I never worked with one before.

Thanks, Linda

If they really came out of nowhere and startled her, part of her response may have been reflex, which is generally not under conscious control (reflexes don't always make it up to the brain; the synapses can occur in the spinal cord only). Plus, some dogs tend to react a bit more intensely to things without really thinking or making choices; it's like their rubber band is wound a little more tightly than that of other dogs. If she was refusing treats, it's possible that she was in the midst of an adrenaline surge, in which digestion shuts down. If you're in fight or flight mode, you're not going to take time out to have a snack. Besides, when the dog is out of control is NOT the time to stick a treat under their nose. Your best action at that time is to turn her away and break eye contact, THEN, at a further distance, get her attention and put her through some OB.

How long have you had this dog? Is it possible that she just needs a little more exposure to a busy environment in which things sometimes happen unexpectedly? How is she with joggers at a distance? How is her on leash obedience otherwise? It sounds like you were probably taken as much by surprise by her reaction as she was by the joggers...

Lisa,
I've had my dog since August. She is definitely making progress. Initially she was not even paying attention to me on the leash. She now walks politely and keeps her attention on me. I think she may not have had alot of exposure and structure in her world before she came to me. She was a surrender at the shelter (owners moving) She has a keen eye and does notice other walkers, joggers and dogs in the distance, but with refocusing and marker training that usually is the end of it. For instance, coming home on my walk today, there was a loose dog in the street, she saw it, pulled hard a few times, and I could tell was getting worked up, but with pieces of hot dog, anytime she made eye contact with me I marked it and rewarded it...that seemed to carry more weight and then she stopped focusing on the dog. Where I walk her there are usually other people out exercising, and in the warmer weather, kids playing organized games, and she has been very good. Like I mentioned, she has progressed. When I first got her she didn't want me to groom her or touch her feet etc. Now that is no big deal. Another thing she did today, an older woman passed me, I gave her ample room, my dog was fine, paying attention to me, until the lady started looking at her and talking too her, then she barked and pulled towards her, I said "no" and kept walking, that was the end of it. When I take her to visit my family, she is quiet, I generally keep her leash on and she stays with me. My one brother in law though, will look right at her and keep talking to her and I can tell she is getting defense by her body language. I politely asked him to stop engaging her, because she seemed threated by it. She is suspicious of men generally. I am working on obedience per Mr. Frawley's DVD. My expectation for her is to be more relaxed, confident, focused, obedient dog. At times she just seems suspicious and or defensive, but less so with time and controlled exposure. I was interested in putting her into an obedience class, but I think I need to cement the basics with her first. Then utilize the class to "proof" her. what is your take on that? I appreciate your advice. This board is a great resourse!
Thanks, Linda

It sounds like you've been working really hard with her, and that it's paying off. You haven't had her for very long, particularly considering her age, so I'm sure you're probably uncovering new issues still. Your description sounds like she's uncomfortable with direct eye contact from strangers/men/unfamiliar people. I'm going to send you some links to some resources via private message.