I just seen the new offer for the new dvd the power of tug of war. Decribed as a POSITIVE thing. Now i am fairly new to leerburg but... the very 1st thing i read by leerburg said NOT to play tug of war with your dog as when you finally give the dog his toy he will think he has won and has dominated you. I wish to know why its a good thing when at 1st it was a bad thing.. this confuses me....HELP!

I'm reasonably sure there isn't really a contradiction, more likely some confusion in context.
Could you give us a link to the reference you're alluding to? Perhaps we can get it cleared up.

ETA,why are we in the dog video forum?

From what I understand, as long as your family pack structure is solid you can play tug with your dog whether it's the average family pet or a working dog. The reason why tug isn't recommended for the family pet is because the average dog owner tends to have poorly defined pack structure which can then lead to dominance issues with the dog.

It's just all in how you live with your dog. Check out the e-book section for some good articles on pack structure.

 Quote: randy allen

.... ETA,why are we in the dog video forum?

Moved. Thanks!

 Quote: randy allen

I'm reasonably sure there isn't really a contradiction, more likely some confusion in context.

You're right, Randy. The quote ("A new pet owner should not play tug-of-war games with their pup. Tug games are an integral part of protection training but they have no place in raising a pet") is part of the "Dealing with dominant dogs" article, as well as part of the older "new to owning a pet dog" articles.

A little confusing.

Hmmm,
Tug of war games probably wouldn't be good if you were rising a gun dog either.

The quote ("A new pet owner should not play tug-of-war games with their pup. Tug games are an integral part of protection training but they have no place in raising a pet")

This to me just says NO dont do it unless you are training for protection. It confuses me thats all. I mean the text is very black and white....no punn intended.

So let me give you my senerio.
I have a (we think) 2 year old Pittbul that we adopted 2 weeks ago from the shelter. We dont crate him as he is already house broken but... he does have his "PLACE" in the house that he sleeps in, eats in ect.. Its a room in the house so a GIANT crate if you will. He CHEWS everything in site.so we bought him a kong ball and this ball is almost destroyed but hanging on. He does NOT growl when you go to take toys away but he dont relese when you say let go, drop it, give ect.. when you finally do get it away from his powerful jaws he does not bark or growl or anything like that but waits for the ball to be returned. How can tug a war be good in this aspect? I mean it said DONT do it becuse when you give the toy to the dog it says to the dog that he has won and is dominating the situwation. so....???

Depends on the dog, I would venture to say 95% of dogs can play tug every day with zero issues. The problem goes into play when we try to tell the dog, game is over, give me that thing. I used to a trade with a high value treat with the wonder lab.

Not a lot to it. I have my hand on one end of the tug, I say give and pull out a treat with the other hand. She wants the treat which means the tug has to come out of her mouth. I can either continue the tug game after that, or put the tug away.

Most dogs will go for it, some dogs really really want the tug more. Depending on the handler skill and homelife it would make me decide at that point if tug is an appropriate game for that dog.

Problems come into play when the owner gives up on communicating with the dog, allows the dog to possess the object, or uses abuse or force to get the item away from the dog. Remember, there are no dog toys, only your toys.

So, not to get too off topic or anything, you have a dog that you have known for two weeks, is fairly free in the home, but is destructive and has never been taught (by you) to out an object, but expect that he should?

I would personally be crating the dog, house trained or not, instead of leaving him in a room. Get to know him and his real temperament before going much further. Learn about marker training and begin loading a mark. THEN train the dog to let go of high value objects through marker training and trading up. The first DVD int he series you were looking at goes into a lot of detail on this. Also the other DVD, "The Power of marker Training"

The tug work DVD is primarily for people looking to do advanced work with their dogs beyond sit, stay and down. Things like competition obedience, agility, rally or any of the various bite sports. It is a way to bring drive to your work and increase the speed, flash, intensity and desire in the work.

Playing tug is a great way to reward a dog for doing what you ask, BUT one of the big things is that the game of tug is started and ended by the handler and the dog MUST release the tug when it is asked for. To be blunt, most dog owners can't get their dog to sit without asking the dog 20 times, so to expect them to bring a dogs drive and confidence up and to control it at the same time is putting a Ferrari in the hands of a 6 year old. For most pet dog owners using tug work is not necessary and 'could' lead to respect issues. If you have a stable, well adjusted dog that has respect and knows its place, and has drive, then it is a great (maybe the best) way to do advanced work.

I have no idea how (or if) this might fit in the present context, but it is important to realize that this web board and many of Ed's articles have been around a LONG time. About a decade. However, his knowledge and training methods have not been stagnating all that time. It has progressed substantially and reward-based training is perhaps the biggest area of development.

Ed usually doesn't go back and change the articles and some of them have gotten a little out of date. I remember reading one a long time ago in which Ed didn't see much use at all in "clicker" training. That is certainly not the case anymore, lol.