I have a pup who was supposed to be a "miniature" critter.
Curious as to the size of other 4 mos old pups of different breeds for comparison.
My guy is 14" at shoulder and 14lbs.
Just curious.

Please see the thread you started a few days ago on this same subject:

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/262050/page/1#Post262050

thank you. My husband and I think your dogs are beautiful. Is the small female the one under your right arm?

Yes. She was around 9 months old in that photo. This is what she looks like today (literally):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2714/4279374151_a6cf5150d0_o.jpg

If I recall correctly, you got your pup from these people:

http://www.thecowgirlsok.com/Cattle%20Dog%20Puppies.htm

While the vet you talked to might be pleased with their puppy, I would want to see actually health testing done and not take the word of a fellow vet. PRCD-PRA in ACDs is late onset, that is why we have a DNA test and why it is so important to test. Like wise it is important to test for both hip and elbow dysplasia. For too long no one tested elbows and now we are beginning to realize it is an issue. Deafness has always been an issue and BAER testing is what good breeders use as it is not always readily apparent with uni pups.

The breeder above is absolutely atrocious. Docks tails, does not health test, unregistered (and mixed) dogs, and while some might live in the house but they have had NINE litters in the span of ONE month. No way anyone can appropriately raise puppies with those numbers. Simply put they are a puppy mill.

I don't say these things to slam you and your decision to purchase from them (if this was indeed the breeder you went to - if not I apologize) but to use it to hopefully educate someone else who might come along and read this thread. I love this breed dearly and there are countless breeders out there that have worked hard to ensure the breed maintains (and improves) its health and working ability and breeders like this are only out there to make a buck.

Good luck with your pup, it sounds like it is lucky to have you and your husband as its owners :-)

I did not get my pup from the cowgirl people, I had some conversations by internet and by phone and got a bad feeling, it seemed like everything you describe.
My dog's kennel had been breeding cattledogs since l967 for their herding ability. My pup was guaranteed to herd, and guaranteed against health defects (could send the pup back). As far as the chihuahua business goes, one of the dams in their breeding program looks like it could be a chihuahua cross.They are not AKC.
In my practice I have run across ACDs that were small like your bitch, but I couldn't find a litter with possible small ones anywhere near to look at, looked intermittently for 2 years. Why did I want a small one? Because my cattle are tame, I've been selecting for disposition since l981. I wanted a housedog, an agility dog, a fun trainable dog, not a barking Aussie or a slinking hyper Border Collie.

More to add: In my experience, AKC is NO guarantee of guality. I spoke to the vet practice where my dog came from for a good long time, and asked lots of questions.
I liked the answers I received and bought a dog.

There is a lot of suffering in animals, frankly. Eating one piece of bacon supports a scene that is equivalent to the worst puppy mill anyone can imagine, because a sow in a crate is roughly equivalent to a dog in a crate, most sows being at least as smart and as social as 50% of dogs (maybe not ACDs!). A turkey is not the mindless blob people imagine either, and 10,000 turkeys in a building is something from a horror movie. People support that scene when they buy their Butterball for Thanksgiving. I raise my own turkeys,my own calves.
I have worked in all these places,(since l970!!!) trying to help, to turn things around. It has been my LIFE. I am NOT a puppy mill supporter, but IMO standards need set in ALL animal business for ALL animal welfare.
People have been mean about my pup. IMO they should open their refrigerator and see what's in there, or think about their dog food and where that came from, and give me a little break here.

I didn't read where anybody got mean about your pup.

Somewhere else?

I read where a concerned forum member gave a couple relatively brief post of her concerns over some questionable breeding practices and making a breed "miniature". Then they wished you luck with your pup.

Absolutely AKC does not equate quality but in my personal opinion, breeding "miniature" ACDs equates poor quality. Why? Because ACDs were bred to be a certain size and the breeders are using miniature as a selling point to the ignorant public who is currently enamored with miniature dogs.

With all due respect, you did not choose for disposition if you went out looking for a 20 pound ACD. All those traits you mentioned that you wanted are found in my normal sized ACDs. All my ACDs are house dogs, performance dogs, and none of them are "slinky" or neurotic.

Michael, Betty went to the main ACD listserv recently and asked all these questions. No one was mean to her there either but they were very blunt about miniaure ACDs and the true effectiveness of a "miniature" dog herding cattle. Believe me, ACD people can snark with the best of them and none of that happened.

Of course, it did not help that she stated that she got the dog on an impulse:

"Lastly, the internet is a powerful tool for, "that puppy in the window", I'd been taking care of my 88 yr. old Dad all summer, he went away (thanks be to GOD!) I've been wanting a puppy for 2 years, and sometimes you just do things on impulse....."


Animal welfare in the meat producing arena is an issue but it is an issue that has absolutely no connection to getting a dog from a reputable breeder. If they don't test, I don't care what their guarantee is, they are breeding irresponsibly. If the "internet rumor mill" as you put it states that they mixed Chihuahua in their dogs to get them smaller, well that is just plain wrong as well.

Breeding dogs poorly since 1967 is not something that is brag worthy in my book.

I will leave this topic alone now as it is evident that you and I will not see face to face one what constitutes a good breeder and that miniature ACDs are just plain wrong. I love my breed dearly and will not stand by silently when I see individuals such as the breeders of your dog ruining it by breeding mixed breed, untested dogs and selling them as "miniature" vesions of my beloved breed.

If you think to find ACD fanciers who support your choice of supporting such a breeder, you are going to have to look elsewhere from where you are currently looking.

One last edit, this paragraph should be:

With all due respect, you did not choose for disposition if you went out looking for a 20 pound ACD so that it "could fly in the cabin when I go to visit my dad" as you stated on the ACD listserv.

 Quote: ingrid rosenquist

Michael, Betty went to the main ACD listserv recently and asked all these questions. No one was mean to her there either but they were very blunt about miniaure ACDs and the true effectiveness of a "miniature" dog herding cattle.

As would be expected, IMO.