When i got my Great Dane puppy(a very soft dog)i worked with a "Yank and crank trainer".It worked to get my dog to listen to commands but i know now i was way over correcting.He got fearfull and shut down,i Didn't know any better this is the first dog i have tried to train and thought that i was doing the right thing.He listens well on leash but off is another thing,That's what led me here.I ordered and electric collar and the dvd to try and let him know that just because the leash is off does not mean no correction.

After ordering i read a little here and now realize how bad i screwed up trying to train my dog i love so much.I pretty much stopped training for a while when i realized i was just scaring him half to death.He can still be fearfull but i think He's starting to realize things will be less scary for him now.BTW,He is almost 11 months old now.

Did i permanently damage our bond or can i work to make him not at all fearfull of me?I would like to continue training him with the goal of off leash obidiance and repair the damage i have done to our relationship.

Please help
Jason.

I would set the dog up to succeed and rebuild your bond through positive interaction. That means managing his environment to minimize the need to corrections of any kind, whether that be with the leash, a crate or even tethering to you.

I would also start with marker training, it is such a non threatening and totally non confrontational way to train, it also can really build the dogs confidence as they learn how to learn. And they just love it, every dog I have ever seen just soaks it right up.


I really prefer a clicker, it seems to really bolster the training and make things very clear to the dog, but lots of other people use a verbal marker with great results as well.

He's a good dog,luckily he never really needs to be corrected any more.I have realized recently that a NO is plenty a correction for most situations for him.

Is marker traning just basically clicker training?I tried that first before moving to my corrections based trainer and i quit the class,it felt like i was just bribing the dog to listen to me and i felt he did not take me seriously.But Reading Leerburg.com i can see how that sort of thing would work along with corrections.

The clicker training really works great, they learn to want to listen to you because they trust you and because good things happen when they do.

I guess it can be seen as bribery from certain angles, but I also know that I go to work because I get paid, and I am more productive and motivated when my boss is encouraging and nice rather than intimidating and overbearing.

Marker training may seem like bribing, but operant conditioning is really a powerful thing. Dogs "will work for food", and it is way more fun than being punished for something you may not understand, since the behavior wasn't established and rewarded in the first place. If you don't know how to "heel" because you have never walked next to the man and he corrects you because you just want to sniff, how fair is that?

I think it's like anything and can be either good or bad depending on how it's used. If you go to the pure positive extreme you can end up with a dog that won't obey without a cookie. But, if you go to the corrections extreme... well you've seen what that can lead to.

I use corrections primarily for bad manners and use positive whenever possible for training.

Make no mistake though, negative punishment, or the act of witholding or removing the reward can be a powerful motivator and not at all confrontational.

Positive punishment is what we generally think of as a correction, either a verbal no, or a leash correction etc.

Hi, Jason,

Marker training (clickers are a form of marker; clicker training is marker training using a clicker for the marker) is a very good way for you to start over, IMO.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that marker training means bribery (bribing, luring, and rewarding are three different things) or that it means that you never correct if needed after you have trained and proofed.

"Is marker traning just basically clicker training?I tried that first before moving to my corrections based trainer and i quit the class,it felt like i was just bribing the dog to listen to me and i felt he did not take me seriously."

This was something about the instructor or the instruction, or perhaps the POV of the class. The feeling that you had of "bribing" the dog probably came from bribing the dog. Perhaps you were displaying rewards, or perhaps luring was carried out beyond its initial purpose. Bribing the dog is not what marker training is about.

Have you seen any of the marker articles or streaming video or eBooks on this site? As mentioned by other posters on the thread, great things can happen when you learn marker training done right. The first in the marker series, http://leerburg.com/219.htm , will be an eye-opener for you.

In fact, there is a lot of material to look at while you wait to receive that, too. See my two posts here for a lot of great material on the Michael Ellis marker videos:
http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=127&Number=264835&Searchpage=1&Main=25319&Words=free+Connie+Sutherland&topic=0&Search=true#Post264835

And welcome to the board!

 Quote: Jennifer Lee

.... it also can really build the dogs confidence as they learn how to learn. And they just love it, every dog I have ever seen just soaks it right up. ...

The dog will love it, and so will you, Jason.

Yes, you can rebuild your relationship.