How many people here use positive reinforcement training? By that I mean in the simplest sense, that you teach something using a reward (may it be toy, food, or whatever) before you'd consider adding corrections? How many of you that do use a positive reward didn't start out that way and switched to it later on? And what have you found the differences to be with the dogs when you compare positive training to start and a dog that is immediately started with corrective based training? Any and all replies are appreciated!

I've always pretty much used positive reinforcement, trying to make sure my dog understands what I want from him before I ask him to do it. Corrections have their place, personally I use negative reinforcement (correction) when someone can get hurt as a result of the action, be it person, dog, cat or other animal. I believe positive training results in a more confident dog, negative training I think makes them more submissive and resistant to trying anything new or thinking for themselves for fear of being reprimanded.

I'm finding this board to be geared toward positive reinforcement, or more specifically, marker training. Look along the left side of the page and click on some links to read all you can about it, and you'll get a very good idea of how people on this board think in general.

I'm not a professional trainer, have only trained my personal dogs and several local "problem" dogs.

I am a clicker trainer that uses limited corrections. I used to use more corrections than I do now, but always trained the behaviour positively first so all learning is an upbeat, positive experience.

Because of the reactivity of my current dog, I've been moving further and further away from the use of corrections. There are very few circumstances with my dog where a correction doesn't have some negative side-effect. He's a physically hard dog but his temperament requires a great deal of sensitivity, so I'm learning to be very creative. I know I can't solve problems with corrections so it forces me to think. My use of corrections is really limited to using the e-collar when my dog is off-leash, and I can't remember the last time I had to push a button.

If this dog were trained with correction-based methods, I suspect he would either eat somebody or shut down completely. He LOVES his marker training though, and is a very eager participant. I've notice even in the last few months that he's really TRYING to do what I ask even under his most extreme distractions. It feels like the distraction-phase of training is taking forever, but when there are breakthrough moments it makes the process worthwhile.

I was putting him through some obedience last week, when a squirrel ran across the field in front of him while he was in a "down". Instead of leaping up and going for it, he stayed put, looked up at me, and whined! It was a real breakthrough, because until then the squirrels were just too much for him to ignore. He did this on his own because he chose to, not because he feared a correction, and that was pretty cool. As a reward I marked him and told him to go get the squirrel A BIG reward for a FABULOUS behaviour.

I am finding that my relationship with this dog has been enhanced because of the need to think so much differently about his training, and I'm loving the results. It has permanently changed the way I think about and approach training.

I use positive re enforcment only until I'm 100% sure they know the command and I know I was clear. after that I use a two by four upside thier head.

exception: cute tricks, if they blow off a cute trick, no big deal.

I try to use as much positive that i can, and like Dennis says i don't really correct cute tricks like curtsy, or running circles around my legs... if i give them another chance they usually get it. with behaviors that i need to be nearly mechanical for the dogs safety like down, heel, and recall i will correct after the dog has learned the bahavior with positive motivation, and then slowly build up the distractions, and use minimal corrections.

At my club we use leash pressure (not really a correction) to refine certain behaviors, like the down in motion my dog would always fly out in front of me before downing. with the use of a wall and blocking him from moving in front with the leash he learned really quickly to lie down beside me, but the dog was always rewarded with a nice game of tug for the proper behavior, and never went down confidence or drive.

 Quote: Amy Wilkinson

How many people here use positive reinforcement training? By that I mean in the simplest sense, that you teach something using a reward (may it be toy, food, or whatever) before you'd consider adding corrections?

I mostly use positive training, markers and ignore what I can with obvious ignoring behavior (like putting my hands behind my neck when I am sitting on the couch and don't want to pet, play, or the like)

I have had to use corrections on walks with pulling. But having said that, I was diligent for several walks and now I only correct once or twice on a 2 miler and that is usually when there is another dog causing extreme interest. At this point, I am marking good heeling and it is working!!!

My dogs are trained with positive reinforcement by using marker training. They get corrections ONLY if they understand the exercise and refuse to do it.

The relationship that I have with my dogs plays a BIG part in my training. I want my dogs to ENJOY working with me. I want them to look forward to it. If I corrected the heck out of them each time they worked with me, I would not have the positive relationships I do with them. They would obey, but it would be based on fear, not mutual respect.

I've seen dogs trained with "punishment" methods. They are not happy dogs. They work because they have to, not because they enjoy it. Luckily, there are fewer and fewer of this kind of trainer out there anymore.

I think that dog training is in a good spot right now. You have great trainers like Michael Ellis combining both positive methods along with corrections. This kind of training results in very positive, enthusiastic, and confident dogs.

Just my own opinion of course....

--Kelly

Thirty three years ago we had our first GSD and trained her on the Kohler method - "yank and crank". She was a wonderful, sweet good natured dog and "well trained" but boy would I love the opportunity to train her using markers/positive training. She certainly deserved better.

I don't see the reason in this day and age to use anything but positive training - luring/marker/etc... for the majority of dogs, if not all. (I have no experience with PPD ect...)

When you can have a dog look forward to training and working with you because it is all positive, engages his mind and results in goodies, I can't imagine starting out with corrections.

Once the dog KNOWS the commands and deliberately ignores the handler, the appropriate correction can be introduced. I believe that correction is going to depend on the dog.

 Quote: amy wilkinson

How many people here use positive reinforcement training? By that I mean in the simplest sense, that you teach something using a reward (may it be toy, food, or whatever) before you'd consider adding corrections? How many of you that do use a positive reward didn't start out that way and switched to it later on? And what have you found the differences to be with the dogs when you compare positive training to start and a dog that is immediately started with corrective based training? Any and all replies are appreciated!

You mean started with compulsion? (Hard to "correct" for something you haven't trained yet. )

My answer goes beyond positive reward based to marker training. Food rewards and toy rewards have been the basis of my training for a long time, but starting to use markers has been like night and day.

It's hard for me to imagine serious trainers starting today deciding against using markers. That might be pretty opinionated (well, it is ), but why not incorporate this method of giving the dog a snapshot of what s/he did to earn the coming reward, this amazing enhancement of timing, this way to allow a dog to think and problem-solve?

This says it way better. http://leerburg.com/markers.htm

I'm old; I've used compulsion (not the same as corrections, as several other posts have clarified). But I doubt that I ever will again.

For what difference we see in the trained dog, I'd probably emphasize the confidence-building of marker work, and the fact that it's training that the dog (every dog I know) wants to do, loves to do, sees as a high point of the day. And me too. Hard to beat that!

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: amy wilkinson

How many people here use positive reinforcement training? By that I mean in the simplest sense, that you teach something using a reward (may it be toy, food, or whatever) before you'd consider adding corrections? How many of you that do use a positive reward didn't start out that way and switched to it later on? And what have you found the differences to be with the dogs when you compare positive training to start and a dog that is immediately started with corrective based training? Any and all replies are appreciated!

You mean started with compulsion? (Hard to "correct" for something you haven't trained yet. )

My answer goes beyond positive reward based to marker training. Food rewards and toy rewards have been the basis of my training for a long time, but starting to use markers has been like night and day.

It's hard for me to imagine serious trainers today deciding against using markers. That might be pretty opinionated (well, it is ), but why not incorporate this method of giving the dog a snapshot of what s/he did to earn the coming reward, this amazing enhancement of timing, this way to allow a dog to think and problem-solve?

This says it way better. http://leerburg.com/markers.htm

I'm old; I've used compulsion (not the same as corrections, as several other posts have clarified). But I doubt that I ever will again.

For what difference we see in the trained dog, I'd probably emphasize the confidence-building of marker work, and the fact that it's training the dog (every dog I know) wants to do, loves to do, sees as a high point of the day. And me too. Hard to beat that!

Yes I meant compulsion.


Thanks everyone for the replies so far, there's a trainer here who uses no positive reinforcement training and I just want to see the main reasons that people have switched, and the differences that they've noticed in their dogs or the dogs that they have worked with. Some of this may help me explain to other people (not him, I'm not going toe to toe with him) why there are better methods out there.