My GSD pup is now about 4 months old. I got her at 9 weeks and did pretty much everything it says on the site about crate training. For a couple of weeks, it went pretty well...crying whenever I put her in, but after a while it died down some. She'd still cry if the crate was in the same room and she could see us, but if she was separate she'd be ok. If she was crying, I'd wait till she stopped to let her out of the crate.

I don't think she had any accidents the first couple of weeks, even at night. She was fresh and clean in the morning. But then we started to notice she STUNK of pee in the mornings. It got to the point where we were bathing her every day. This went on for a week or so. We didn't give her any water past about 6 PM. I figured okay, at night I'd leave her in the kitchen loose, because she wasn't old enough to hold it all night, and I didn't want her to lay in it if she had an accident.

Everything was pretty good at night, she only had a couple of accidents in several weeks. But I noticed if I put her in the crate for short periods of time she'd have accidents. The first time I realized this was when I took her out to pee (she went) and then put her in the crate so I could clean up around the house in peace, and 30 minutes later came and let her out, and she'd had an accident.

I have been avoiding putting her in the crate, but I've tried building up to longer periods of time and she still has accidents, even though I always take her out before I put her in the crate. If she's loose in the house, she can go at least 5 hours without an accident, and almost always makes it through the night loose in the kitchen, but any time in the crate and it's like a faucet!!!

I don't understand the problem with the crate. I've taken it outside, hosed it out, and used vingear/water to get rid of the smell, but it doesn't make a difference. There is no bedding in the crate (I had a dog bed in the originally but washing it all the time got old), and she has toys, and the crate isn't oversized. Any ideas?

Interesting dilemma Meghan, thanks for posting...I look forward to responses.

Here are my initial thoughts & possibilities:
1) Have you ruled out a medical issue with her soiling? (if she can "hold it" when she is out of the crate, this may not be medical)
2) superstitious behavior: the dog had an accident or two (or more) just moments before you let her out of the crate. The dog then associated "wetting" with the opening of the crate door. There are some posssible suggestions for this type of problem, but in the mean time...make sure that you never let her out because you notice urine in the crate...because you may, accidentally, let her out soon after she has wet.
3) go back to VERY short stays in her crate where you are SURE she won't have time to wet...with you making unexpected visits to the crate to a) open the crate and/or b) throw a tiny treat in there (and try not to do this when the dog is whining or struggling to get out). You might have to go back..way back...to a point at which you are basically restarting your crate training. When you can not do this procedure, go ahead and take her out of the crate and put her in that place where you think she stays reliably dry. The idea here is to make sure she gets practice living in her crate accident free without a single incident for as long and as for as many sessions as possible.
4) Continue to make sure that she gets frequent trips outdoors so that she can "go". You can praise her and treat for this appropriate elimination as well. this will make it more discriminable to the pup that "hey, THIS is the good place to pee". Make sure that she is well exercised, and has hopefully 'wet' more than once while she was out.
5) Of course, you can try to catch the dog as she initiates her wetting and then implement some sort of punishment procedure. As always, this punishment better occur during the very instant that she initiates the wetting...and it is highly preferrable that it can be implemented every single time she starts the inappropriate wetting <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> .
6) You mention this, but be sure that the crate is the right size for your pup...not a full size Shepherd crate.

Basically, I see this as a time where you must start over... with a focus on the 'wetting' problem.

Looking forward to reading further suggestions.

Good luck!

 Quote:

Originally posted by Denver Asher:
Meghan, number one, you should not have let the dog stay in the kitchen, now the dog thinks the crate is her piss depot.

It's hard to say "why" your dog is wetting in the crate, so who knows? At this point, all we know is that she is doing it. We certainly don't know what your dog 'thinks'.

"Starting on a Saturday morning when you have several hours to watch her, put her in the crate and take her outside every 30 minutes..."

This might be effective, you never know unless you try.

"No treats in the crate until she is housebroken"

I'm not sure I understand why the dog will be denied treats in the crate.

"which may take some time because you screwed up. My GSD is 4 months old, got him at 8 weeks, house trained at nine weeks"

Screwed up?! I have had pups that have been fully housetrained and non-destructive with no formal intervention from myself. I don't know why, it just worked out that way. Some dogs probably find it to be terribly aversive to "be" around their waste and these dogs are easy to housetrain, while others would gladly live in their own filth without complaint. I have seen plenty of non-dog people who have out of control dogs, but the dogs do not soil their crate....again, no dog-knowlege at all...but it just worked out nicely.

This last post was a bit too self rightious for my tastes. Unless someone has experienced every possible type of dog, it would be difficult to place "blame" or "fault" on anyone....and it doesn't matter anyway. Some dogs are much tougher to house/crate break than others. No doubt about that!

Kelton, I don't think one has to experience every type of dog to know that letting the dog out of the crate into the kitchen was a mistake. Dog training is sometimes a battle of wits, and I think you may be going into combat unarmed. But thanks for your astute insight, best laugh I have experienced in a while.

Kelton, you said you had pups fully house trained and non destructive without any intervention. Must have been super pups, where can I pick up a couped of 8 week old GSDs with the above traits. Waiting for your answer with total amusement.

Denver, how did you train your pup to get the paper?

Mr. Van Camp, I first taught him to fetch and return a ball on a string to me and release it. Then I let him watch me go out for the paper each morning. After a couple of weeks of watching, one day I told him to fetch the paper and he picked it up with his mouth and took it into the house and started mouthing it. I gave him a treat in exchange for the paper along with a lot of praise. After three days of he and I getting the paper together, I told him to go fetch the paper and he went by himself and got it and brought it inside the house while I held open the door. He now does it upon command everytime, occasionally he will drop the Sunday paper because it is so heavy but he balances it now in the middle and has less difficulty. So I guess basically he trained himself. By the way it is over 200 feet from the door to the mailbox where the paper is lying on the grass. Believe me it is not my training, he is one super pup. Proofed his down stay this morning at the supermarket, he never moved from his position while I was gone (about 10 minutes) Mr. Van Camp, I know you are an expert dog trainer and I am curious as to why the question about the paper!!

Expert. . .I like to think I am, but most everyone seems to know the truth.

I was just curious.

I am no dog expert, but maybe if you got the pup a different crate that looks different too, like if you have a plastic one now, get the metal cage kind. From my understanding, once a dog starts peeing in the crate they believe its okay and they will continue to do so. Her crate probably smells of pee too so she has marked it so to say as the potty place. My pup did this too for a week straight, so I changed his crate for a week and then brought back the other one all clean and he didnt do it anymore.