I've heard from what many would describe as OLD SCHOOL trainers that alpha rolling, picking up the pup, and making the pup obey an obedience command prior to his daily feeding time all help in eliminating dominance behavior. I've experienced success using these techniques with my own personal dogs. Many don't use or believe in this training theory. Now allowing the pup on the bed and such things also keep problems from starting. My question is has any one else experience any success using this approach? Are there any other things that young children for example should do to keep a dog in the correct hiechary position?
Dave Curtis Webboard User Reg: 07-11-2001
Posts: 77
Loc: Minnesota
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I have 5 kids and a dominate GSD male personal protection dog who is as gentle as can be to all my kids. I have always had my kids take turn feeding him from their hands since he was a 7 week old pup which has progressed to very gentle petting while he eats now. They can take anything from him at any time but return it quickly. We all work on picking up his toys and put them away when play time is over. Never did the alpha roll. Never felt I had to. He will roll over to have his stomach scratched, by family members only however.
I've only ever found alpha roll techniques to create a continuous battle in which the dog actually becomes more aggressive. It seems once humans become part of the doggy hierarchy, Fido always feels the need to challenge his status.
I've had good luck treating pups with the same respect I want them to treat me with. A gentle, consistant and fair approach toward training has brought me some wonderful, close relationships with some excellent family dogs. No alpha rolls needed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Note to all beginners who are determined to use the Alpha Roll. Please put a muzzle on the dog first. I have seen first hand what can happen if you do not. It is not pretty.
I'm talking about a pup, that's about 13 weeks. I feel relatively comfortable rolling him on to his back. My children even do this,however, I wonder how effective it is. When I see responses like "be careful..use a muzzle etc.." It must have some application, or people would not be scared to do it to their dog. There are many different views on this, that range from...it's great to...it helps but it's over rated to... it's use less. Thank you all for the responses.
Rolling a puppy to play with it and Alpha Rolling and adult are very different things. With puppies I have found a "shake and toss" more effective. This is how a bitch disciplines a puppy. Jab the pup by the back of the neck shake it gently telling it no and then let go. It will work until the pup is about 6 months.
An Alpha Roll is generally done on an adult (male). It forves the dog into a submissive position and holds it there. Many dogs, especially dominant ones, will fight this. It is an invitation to fight and showing complete dominance. I would not recomend it with any dog, especially a dominant breed. I do a quick series of obedience commands instead to regain control. "No" is effective also.
If this is being done in play be careful and if the dog struggles let it up, or it may decide to fight the poaition. That fight is why people recomend a muzzle if you insist on doing this to and adult.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird.
Ed Frawley Administrator Reg: 07-11-2001
Posts: 2112
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Alpha rolling an adult dog is stupid, alpha rolling a puppy is non-productive. It makes no sense.
The rank can be set with a handler through obedeince training without any negative results (which can happen with rolling a pup too often)
When we make a dog (or puppy) do obedience work they are submitting to us every time they follow a command. When obedience training is done properly we end up with our rank being set and a dog that is happy to accept it.
When alpha rolls are done it only adds stress to the dogs and in my opinion does nothing to establish a good relationship with the dog.
BESIDES THE FACT THAT IT'S A GREAT WAY TO GET YOUR FACE BIT OFF WITH AN ADULT DOG. Anyone who alpha rolls theri dogs needs to rethink their approach to their problems.
I agree with Ed Frawley about the Alpha Roll. With certain type dogs, they will tear you up if you try that with them because of their dominate nature. A dog that is on their back is in a submissive posture and some dogs just will not handle that. The dog has to trust the handler or owner completely before it will roll over on it's back. The Alpha Roll would not work with my dogs. I find that a stern word or glance works with my dogs.
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