All these threads about weak nerved dogs got me thinking. Every litter has an Alpha and an Omega (the submissive one). I believe that the Alpha dog poses as much problems to the average pet owner as the submissive fearful pup as he constantly wrangles owners for "head of household". So, where do these puppies go? Do breeders know at 8 weeks which one is the Alpha, and if so, who do you give this dog to? I've seen Ed post restrictions on certain litters but since every litter has an Alpha who gets them?

Yes every litter has an Alpha puppy. But no not every Alpha puppy will have rank issues later in life. It depends on the breeding. A submissive pup in one litter may have more Rank Drive than an Alpha pup in another litter. I will leave it to our breeders to get into this in much more detail than I can.

At least on this board, most of the people will prefer those "alpha" puppies. It is easier for usto deal with them. The "weak" puppies are a bigger problem because we don't know what to do with them. We tend to overwhelm the more submissive pups. The tough puppies are easier, some of us may be a little heavy handed and those "alpha" pups tend to respond to that.

Vince is right. Not every dominant pup in the litter will be dominant elsewhere. And, a dog can be dominant toward other dogs, but not toward humans. But, I don't think we can use alpha as a synonym for *stong nerved*. My Mink g-daughter was the dominant bitch in her litter and she has no reservations about trying to dominate other dogs. But, she has terrible nerves. So, go figure.

Interesting. So, if I understand this right, the alpha puppy in the litter is not necessarily the dominant dog with humans. So, how then do breeders know which is the dominant dog or do they when they place the pup?
I agree, most people on here would prefer the dominant dog over the weak nerved one. I myself like the middle of the road dog. I don't think I would enjoy a dog who I constantly have to mentally wrestle with. But, I bet quite a few of the dominant dogs end up at the shelter as much as the weak nerved one since the "average" novice pet owner doesn't know how to deal with this as can be witnessed by the many letters Ed answers.
If I were a breeder I would want to prevent a dominant dog going to an inexperienced owner, is there a way to tell early on?

Part of my point is that you tend to hear about problem puppies, so what you hear about depends on the "crowd" you run with. Since a lot of people have poor timing and little experience training, they are more likely to create problems with a "softer" dog.

Richard, you are correct. Since I live in 2 worlds, pet dog *and* working dog training, I do work w/many novices in both arenas and I always recommend that beginners start out with a dog who has some degree of hardness for exactly the reasons you cite. New handlers tend to way overdo the corrections, seriously under-do the praise and not have good timing.

Ricahrd and Joy once again speak the truth.

I understand the point you are making. But someone please answer my question about how do breeders determine who the dominant pup is? For a person who is just a pet buyer, not into working etc.....would you not want to make sure that a very dominant dog not go into this type of home?

Lanegirl,

I guess what you are asking is how to match puppies with owners based on dominance of the puppies. It is not so much which puppy is dominant in the litter, but how dominant is the puppy and can the owner handle the dog. In some litters all the puppies may be so dominant that many owners can't handle any of them.

As far as picking owners you are dependant on information from the potential buyer. If the litter is hard puppies or of a hard breed then you need to look for experienced owners and/or owners with a good trainer already lined up. Some breeds are just not acceptable for everybody. I have Giant Schnauzers, every place I go half the people who meet our dog(s) want one. If they get really pushy about it we will ask what kind of experience they have with dogs, and then show them the scars from "discussions" as to who is dominant in the house.

A friend of mine in Canada just got back a puppy he had sold to some people that swore up and down that they had previously owned dominant GSD's. After 2 months they had progressively allowed him to growl and snap and get his way with that type of behavior. It got to the point that if they tried to brush the dog he would growl and snap and they couldn't control him at all. My friend took the puppy back and took 2 weeks to realign his thinking and now he is fine (and for sale again). If still is a little more challenging than he should be, but that is comming back under control. These people probably can't handle a male in this breed. This was not the dominant puppy in the litter.

Screening new owners is tough, not only for working breeds. This is part of the reason why you see the "show" people prefer to breed out the "working" temperament. They see it as a liability to try to sell their puppies because it limits the potential owners.